194: The Social Reckoning (2026)

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Hey everyone, welcome to What Are You Watching? I'm Alex Whitrow, and you have part of my attention. You have the minimum amount. The rest of my attention is back at the offices of Facebook, where my colleagues and I are doing things that no one in this room, including and especially your clients, are intellectually or creatively capable of doing. Did I adequately answer your condescending question? And I'm joined by my best man, Nick Dostal. How are you doing there, MZ? Take out the drop the just Facebook cleaner. I loved how we're not talking about the social network today, but I loved how in uh reckoning they would sometimes refer to him as MZ. Like they're like too afraid to say his full name. Or I don't know. It's just so funny to me.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Maybe that maybe MZ. Maybe that's it maybe that's what he likes to be called.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Well, I think I only caught it when like uh White and Mikey Madison were talking about it. Yeah. Like just to kind of cut, you know, I don't know, make it like choppier, but slow down some of that dialogue. Yeah, maybe. Wow, this is a big episode. I'll speak for myself. Start like for now explain because yeah, there has been no movie so far in 2026 that I I have openly and willingly, and just for fun, been kicking the shit out of more than the social reckoning. It began when the movie was announced, just in general, because I don't I didn't really think it felt necessary. And then I I forgot this until until I was watching the movie. I did not remember that he it was announced that they had recreated some of January 6th. So thankfully that had left my mind. So when I saw that in the movie, I was like, oh yeah, I used to be mad at this movie for that. I guess I forgot that. But then we made fun of the name, we thought the name was really heavy, and then on you know, just some pods leading up to this, we've just been kind of saying how we didn't, including in our most recent episode, Digger, how we didn't really think we were gonna like it. The social reckoning, written and directed by Aaron Sorkin. And I'll tell you, like, uh about 45 minutes into the movie, I went, I said on the on the digger pod or some recent pod that I hope I get to call myself the asshole because I hope I'm wrong. I'm the asshole. I was wrong. I really, really enjoyed this movie. Hey, man. So I'm just calling myself out.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

It's gonna be a fun day. You know what? It's not every day when Alex Whithrow will admit that he is wrong, but God bless him. He will he will admit it when he is, but uh, but but listen, Haas, I'm right in the same boat with you. We were talking the same shit. I'm gonna be wrong. We're just talking, that's all. Well, we were proved wrong by our own expectations.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Yeah, we were. What am I saying? Yeah, we were because we my whole thing was like yes and that's what I want to know, yes and and I he the movie to me approached it in a way where that was not what we were left with at all. It was more like, oh, you you thought this movie showed were fucked. We're I mean, what where the hell do you think we are now? And I went, Oh, okay, uh okay. And that was that's just the very end, you know. And that's not like spoilers. We we will keep it, you know, relatively that's just life. You know, people know that like the dude is out. I mean, like he's still running this company. I just saw a video of him this morning of like unable to being able to drink uh a pint of Guinness. Like, yeah, I know I saw that. Like takes a sip. Yeah, you saw that. So I mean he's still around. No, we'll be like loose with spoilers, or rather, no spoilers for now. I will say, like, when we get into that, but you know, it's it's kind of like a hard-ish film to spoil. All to say, yeah, I am really impressed, and I'm very excited to hear that it worked for you too. And I'm excited to hear, you know, where our expectations were a little misguided and how the film, you know, answered those.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

But tell me more about your experience watching it. Well, I think uh I think we were also, just to be fair to us, I think we were right in our expectations. I think we were right to kind of be concerned about what this was gonna be leading into it, because from everything that we really could kind of figure out about it, was that it was just gonna be an impossible movie. It just was, it was just, it just like, how could this actually work? But uh without saying too much, I think the smartest thing that it did was it focused on one singular aspect of something that is a result of our world of social media, that it just kind of zoned in on one particular thing, which then branched out to a lot of different types of things, but it was one story, and that was you mean like how it began, like how the movie opens? Essentially, the plot of the movie was about one singular thing as opposed to like that idea that we had about it that oh, social media is bad, we all need to be off of it, and blah blah blah, and just kind of doing more of like a a thing like that with it, as opposed to actually actually covering what I thought to be a decent journalism movie.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Honestly, the journalism stuff is um not only have we talked about that a lot on this pod with you know, we covered all the president's men, but that was the thing that hooked me. I went, yeah, huh. This is like his portrayal was really convincing, down to just I I mean, I know a lot of people, I've met a lot of journalists like him, or you know, I he's a little younger than the journalists I'm referencing. I've just I've met a lot of journalists like him where they follow the paper, like they are addicted to the story and the facts, and like let's talk to the people, let's go out there, and they don't rely on this level of tech. And he just sold all that well the way Jeremy Allen White, the way he kind of underplayed it, and just his whole delivery of everything, and you know, butting up against these words that he's not familiar with, these you know, kind of Gen Z terms like mansplating. It was oh, that was funny. And then I I got a kick out of that. That but yes, just focusing on the journalism thing for now for now, all the staff was great, like that he worked with, I believe, all that banter. Yeah, it was really, really convincing of also how long this shit takes. If you want to break a huge story like this, you can be on it for years.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

And it was great how they referenced too, like that one scene where he looks out into the office and he sees that there's nobody really there, and realizing, and then one guy says, Well, we're the last generation of this, basically. I thought it was nice to kind of have somebody who is Jeremy Allen White's age, which it probably truly is like that last bastion of people that are truly out for that. Exactly what you always talk about with the problem with journalists today, and not journalists, but journalism. And it was great to kind of have that juxtaposed, get in my favorite word of the day, with a whole entire thing that is about, you know, the way that that's been replaced. So you what I think what I'm really getting at is you've got these belief systems that are in these characters throughout this movie that I think are really represented well, if maybe not a little bit too on the nose a couple of times, but that's okay. It certainly isn't, doesn't cause any harm. You understand what Jeremy Allen White's character cares about. Like, besides just this story, you get fundamentally what he thinks about the world today and what he thinks about his job. And then you get the exact same with Mikey Madison, you get the same with Mark Zuckerberg. So you you are really taken care of in terms of the characters that are in this and why they do all the things that they do. That's just that's just good Sorkin writing.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Uh yeah, I want to stay focused kind of with expectations too. But yes, totally agree on the journalism stuff. We'll unpack that a little more. I, you know, I've also on this pod over the years had fun at kind of poking fun at his directing work. And before we get into like the social reckoning proper, well, I'll I'll go through his career briefly, just because we've never like really fully talked about him, had like an honest talk, on honest long talk about him. So, with you know, Molly's game, Trial the Cot Chicago 7 being the Ricardos, I just that didn't help my expectations. All the stuff I mentioned about the movie. Also, what I realized 45 minutes in is this is uh while it has been heavily marketed as a direct sequel to David Fincher's The Social Network, written by Aaron Sorkin, it does not even pretend to have that vibe. It is not relying on that music like the trailer does. It is not, and I I'm watching this going, Wow, like there uh you know, a lot of times there's like a timeline bar. It looks like something at a PowerPoint that like pops up to let us know when we've jumped into the past or when we've gone into the future, or bears basically where we are in the reality of life. Now, the social network is doing this constantly, but without the timeline bar. And when I saw that, I went, normally this would annoy me, but it's kind of Sork and admitting. I'm not a skilled enough, I'm not as skilled of a director as David Fenture, and I'm not trying to be. I can't win this on like grace and awesomeness and just how cool the social network is. I'm not trying to necessarily make a cool movie, it's more like a whistleblower journalism movie. Yes. And when you accept a social reckoning on those terms, I think the movie succeeds wildly because I, you know, this is two pods in a row where mass audiences or whatever critics writ large, it the movie just doesn't seem to be doing that well. It's not having great box office performance, the social reckoning. I mean, 55% on Rotten Tomatoes, that means nothing to me because it's like, oh, I just don't I and everything that I've read, I've avoided reviews on purpose, but everything that I'm seeing is like this is not a worthy follow-up to the social network. Uh I guess I would agree with that sentence, but I don't think it's trying to be a follow-up to that. As like silly as that sounds, but I really don't.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

No, and I actually I like it better as an idea that it does not, honestly. I think it actually behooves the movie to not have Jesse Eisenberg as Mark Zuckerberg because this is a different movie about an entirely different thing, it just so happens to involve the the person who created Facebook, but there is nothing that is a continuation of this. This is its own story about something completely different in a time and a place of the world that we currently live in. And I think having Jeremy Strong take on this role separates this movie even more from the social network. As I I I almost don't even like putting them next to each other because they're so vastly different. And I think this movie does better on its own as a standalone movie, as opposed to the sequel to the social network. And you know, and it's and it's never even really positioned itself as a sequel, it never has.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Well, in the only in the marketing, only in the marketing look look at the posters, they're trying to look exactly like the social network. And that's I mean, that's not Aaron Sorkin going, I want to mirror that marketing. Even like if I remember the one trailer I saw a lot, it ends with that like dun dun. Like that famous like Trent Reznor stuff. That score is not going on throughout reckoning, those are all marketing decisions, and I really I mean, we'll never know. This is always a gamble, but what if you kind of undersell it as like, yes, of course I wrote the social network, but what if because we were talking, we just saw each other, we were in Las Vegas, and I said, you know, they haven't really been hitting us with like the pre-interviews for the movie. There's no like, you know, I mean, think about when Gladiator 2 came out, like Denzel went on everything everywhere, like he just went on everything before the movie came out. Sometimes you pre-sell it, and that made me a little curious, but I I think it would have benefited from some sort of like pre-marketing, getting ahead of things, saying, No, this is really its own thing. Like, I want people to be more. If Aaron Sorkin came out and said, I want this to be Frank Capra meets all the president's men, if I knew that information a year ago, I would have been way more interested in this from the start, because that's what this movie is to me, and it is not perfect, and it is not trying to be perfect, but it directly references both of those. Once they I'm I mean, this is why sometimes I love Sorkin dialogue, is it can be so obvious. Once they had that very brief conversation about Frank Capper movies, it was the light bulb went off, and I went, Oh my god, that's what this is. That's exactly what he's doing here. This is, you know, Mr. Smith goes to Washington, this is Mrs.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Smith goes to Washington. Like you are you are correct in my taste. Um, if we had known this information going into it, it would have made you and I, and I'm sure a bunch of our mad movie buffs who feel the same way very happy. But if you think about the the machine that it needs to be, I'm sure a lot of this is probably out of Sorkin's hands. I almost all of it in terms of marketing we're talking about, almost all of it is. You uh yeah, it a lot of it is. If you think about it from a marketing standpoint, it is not a bad idea to completely angle this as a sequel to the social network, because as every fucking studio knows, IP is what sells. But we're we're met a lot of times these days now where sometimes that formula for whatever reason is just incorrect. Like you get the all the IP. I think it hurt them here. I do, I think it did, and I don't know why, because I mean everyone loves the social network. So if you are a marketing person, well, why wouldn't everyone be racing to the theaters to see the sequel as opposed to this Frank Capra like journalistic uh style movie? So I think what happens here is that hooray for us for getting a movie that we'd prefer to have, and it sucks for the box office. But moreover, the same thing that sucks for Digger as well, you know, the complete bomb of Digger and potentially the bomb of this, it just leads to more and more movies of no one's gonna be taking chances.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Well, yeah, I I I want to agree, but the thing is the thing about it is Digger is fascinating. And I'm not saying this is not I I absolutely fucking hate when podcasts spoil other movies outside of that episode. Like, I I put a buzzer on the digger warning spoilers. So I'm not gonna say that nothing, I'm not gonna go there about it, other than man, go on letterbox, like go on so like people who are seeing it love this movie and they're going, What the fuck are you all talking about? Like, this is good. Why isn't this doing better? So I really think that movie could find a life on streaming. I do agree with you. I'm I'm still on Digger right now that it will get nominated for some Oscars. I think it's gonna have legs because it's a huge swing, and I I really see people appreciating it. This is a much more conventionally told movie, but yeah, I really expected a bigger I I expected critics to be a little more here for it and audiences, and I'm like, I didn't have time to see it. I saw it uh about a week ago because I saw it Thursday, and we're recording this on Wednesday, and I'm like, and I couldn't get another screening in. But I'm still, even though we're gonna record this, I'm still gonna go, like probably this weekend, because I just want to see it again, and I am gonna buy it, and I I because I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Well, the thing that this movie has, which I think is a really, really good key thing for any movie like this to have, is that you want to kind of go on this journey again with these people. I think that's why all the President's Men work so well, is because you you really just kind of want to see what Dustin Hoffman and Robert Redford are gonna do next.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

And while nothing I swear to God, I'll shut up, but you're you're just activating something. Their their relationship got so much stronger as the movie went on. Yes. Mikey and Jeremy Alan White, and I was like, I'm gonna have fun re-watching this. I'll shut up now.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

But yeah, you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. And this movie did a really good job of having fun with that. And while it doesn't get too much into, you know, with all the presence men, you get really into that work the same way. Um that you you actually don't get that right here. They do a cute job, actually, of not having us do too much of that work for ourselves in terms of what they're doing. Um, because you've got a Jeremy Allen White character who confesses that he doesn't know how any of this works. It's a perfect way. It's honestly a very, very smart writing way to because a movie like this, I imagine it, and you, you're the writer, it would probably be very difficult to actually, you'd probably work yourself into a lot of corners with a movie like this because you're trying to take care of so much of the information. And and and and there comes a point where you need to deliver that information, but then like, how much is too much? And what is a way that we can conveniently and organically get some of this information away from audiences' thinking power and more on the ride of what the movie is. And I think honestly, I don't know if that was the intention all along, but I thought about it and I was like, it's very smart to have Jeremy Ellen White just constantly let us know I don't do math, I don't know what you're talking about. Explain it to me like I'm an idiot, and that and that yeah, that helps the relationship between Mikey and him as well. So it's honestly brilliant in terms of fixing that loop or that problem. If that was one, it would be for me.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Oh, yeah, sure. And even so, going back to the trailer, which I wasn't like as out on, and maybe everyone, or maybe listeners, not everyone, have some listeners have noticed that we're only really talking about like one aspect of the film for in right now, which is the Mikey Madison, Jeremy Allen White, because we're also cutting to Mark Zuckerberg played by Jeremy Strong, and we'll get I'm just treating it as like two different sections from now for now. But when we got the first look at that trailer, I was like, her acting seems I don't know, there's just something off, like maybe a little stilted, I don't know, kind of off white seems to be playing it, is a little like is he bored? Like it's kind of stiff, what's going on? Within the context of the movie, those choices make total sense. She is kind of off, she's on she's a self-professed nerd, she actually loves Facebook, like she wears hand warmers. I just I understood her so well, just like I did White playing this journalist. So, yeah, I it it's another area where the marketing just kind of led us wrong. I don't know how else to say. Oh, the other thing is in the marketing in the trailer, I didn't understand why she was always Mikey Madison dressed in these like scantily cloud clad outfits in hotels. Um I was going, uh do these two have an affair or what is this? And I thought they handled that well. At least it made me laugh a few times. Oh no, I get the yeah, so uh all that was corrected within the context of the full movie.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

The the the movie was correcting itself in its context of itself the whole entire time because yes, the marketing led it astray in every single way. Because L I I had that exact same thought of seeing Mikey in those in those those outfits and even like with the wet hair. I was almost like, are we gonna get the Venetian blinds with a bolt of lightning and thunder in the background next? Like, yeah, is she hiding a knife and waiting for somebody? Like, there were all these things. I was like, what is this movie? And then when you get it, it's just it's honoring itself and it's um it's uh yeah, and it's it's well done. Yes, and I agree, it's not a perfect movie by any stretch. Um, but it is one way better than we thought it was, and way better than I just don't understand, like 50. I mean, we are getting into that point where it's just like any movie in a Rotten Tomatoes section that gets below a 60, you and I will like. And this is just another one.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

It's fucking ridiculous. Like, what is Digger? 44, or maybe it climbed when we recorded it was 44. It's ridiculous, these scores.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

And this is the one thing that I've been saying a lot. And I'm gonna I'm gonna bring in social reckoning with Digger, is like, regardless of maybe these are your like this is your cup of tea when it comes to movies, all right? I'll give you that. Maybe this isn't the type of thing you want to see, but these are both not bad movies. They're that's the craziest thing. These are exp especially Digger, but I mean, these are well done pieces of business, and um, and that's the one thing I can't really like kind of wrap my head around, where people are like, oh, this is like trash. And I was like, Yeah, what then what do you consider to be trash?

SPEAKER_01 21:34

That's what that's like what like like like back to the Rotten Tomatoes thing. I'm going, what the hell is like what is this? When did this like flip? Because I don't know, I just don't agree with by and large a lot of it anymore. And honestly, yes, going back to Digger, but thinking like going to that, I told Allie, I go, it's about to be wiped out of theaters, but trust me, you would like that film, you would like it, and we would have a great conversation about it. My dad saw it. Said that on the episode, he liked it like uh this too. I told my dad, you gotta go see it for for a few reasons. One, because it's way better than I thought it was gonna be, and the other, I think it really portrays something that you you know wisely said we're gonna hold off until spoiler sections, uh, really well, like really well. Yeah, so yeah, it it just it doesn't deserve what the reputation it has. I too, I too wonder if some you know, like how I mean Gen Z or you know, the the generation under us, they love the 2022 scream, so like the scream five, like that's their scream. They like I don't know if something like this can be taken as like this is our social network, but this drops on streaming, people hit play, and you know, I I was in a theater, so I but I I imagine at home you're not gonna like go to reach to turn it off because it's gonna keep you locked in, and then it's because it's a good movie, like that's yeah. Well believe me, if these were like weird ass W A Y W movies, we would tell you they're not like even Digger is oh, it is weird, but it has some really profound shit to say, and social reckoning is not weird, and it's not bad, it's not and and also we talk about this a lot, you know.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Like when we recommend and like why we did that whole entire um Jay Pakula episode was if you've never even seen all the president's men, how do you how would you not enjoy this? Like, yeah, like like like like because you wouldn't really have like that frame of reference to kind of see when you're looking at these type of like journalists out there grinding, working on a story. Like, there's a lot of movies that follow this mechanism of of of play. It's like its own structure unto itself in a way, and there's like there's rules you have to kind of follow, I think, in an in this type of narrative. And I think this movie does it like to a T. Everything about it. And you've and and there's nothing there like that's the other thing too is like while Digger maintains a bit of I can absolutely see some controversy and things like that about it, which is probably why we like it so much. There isn't really anything controversial about this.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

No, you you would have to reach for it. You have to be like, oh, of course, a boomer with a line about mansplaining. It's like you people like to if that is your issue with a two-hour movie, like you gotta, you just gotta get a hold of yourself a little bit, like it ain't that big of a deal. It's just no, there's nothing remotely controversial about the social reckoning.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

There isn't. Like it and um, and it especially in today's time, what you know. Right, that's what I mean. So, so yeah, so I I'm hoping that maybe it will um it will continue to maybe pick up some steam. Um, I mean, nothing you can do about it though, if you're the marketing team. You've you've you've you have this was an all-in bet on marketing it as the sequel to the social network. You can't really walk it back now.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

You can on uh like it's a much smaller market, but that's what I'm gonna say. Like uh digital release, 4K's. You can do it there. You don't these posters suck. Like Mikey Madison looks like lost. I'm like, these are not good. The the social network ones were haunting, like they it it's just it's not a good look. And if they make that, for instance, like the you know, the 4K release or the poster on Netflix, like they that's your chance to change it. But yeah, you know, I I I don't know. Maybe they don't want to put any more time into it because it didn't make any money.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

I mean, and that's that's another reality to it as well.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Not unlike the social network, which you don't know is gonna kind of be bouncing back and forth, and we're in how Facebook we're in one timeline of how Facebook got created, and then we're jumping to two different sorts of depositions that Zuckerberg is involved in. And then in the social reckoning, it's something you know, Facebook might be doing some bad shit, might be up to no good, and you got the Mikey Madison works for Facebook, she's based on a real person. She wrote a book about all of this, who inadvertently it seems, blew the whistle on Facebook and some very bad practices that they were up to. That that's like it didn't necessarily teach me anything new in terms of I know that right now in September 2026, October 2026, Jesus, we like social media feeds us hate more than anything because that activates people more. I knew that I didn't quite know like the technicalities of how this company got there, and that this storyline, you know, shows it, and I really appreciated that. And then we're jumping to something a little bit in the future, as this timeline bar tells us of so you have Mikey Madison works for Facebook, gets linked up with Jeremy Allen White, works for the Wall Street Journal, he wants to write some shit on Facebook. Narrative two is Mark Zuckerberg, it's kind of what the trailer really like is hanging on. You know, you got Jeremy Strong sitting there giving practicing a deposition for his team, and we don't really know we don't know exactly we know the year, but we don't know exactly when it is. So, Leah, let's open this up. Like, what did you think of these scenes? Because I I have some thoughts, but yeah, I'm wanting to just hear what you thought.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

I do too. I actually this is just how I felt the first time seeing it. I thought these were, and I want to be careful here. I thought these were the weakest scenes of the movie.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

No, we're on the same page fully with this. Fully, because I it they're not like bad. I mean, they're not.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

No, no, no, they're not.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

And of course, Sorkin wants to, he needs to show Zuckerberg getting a verbal thrashing, even if it's by someone Zuckerberg considers, you know, a foe played by Bill Burr. I thought really well played by Bill Burr. Everyone's fine in it. Jeremy Strong is like fucking hermetically sealed at this point. I'm just like, Yeah, yeah, there's no like ease or relaxation in his work, which you know is fine, it's fine. But it it didn't really amount to much to me, especially where it landed, which I I was I kind of put my head back and go, oh god, please get like do well with this, and you know, the war room stuff. I'll get into a little bit more, but it just didn't really. I I went, huh. I there could be like a 9,500-minute movie in here where all this stuff is just out, and it's just the journalism whistleblower movie.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

While I can understand why this is there, because you need something that's gonna run parallel to the journalistic story from the other side of things, just so you get a more well-rounded viewpoint of everything. And we do get that, but we get it in a way where it doesn't, it doesn't come off as exciting as the journalist part of it. Yeah. Um, and I don't know what you do, I don't know how you fix it, but but that was the I mean, I you can see it too. Like, all right, what's an interesting idea? We're gonna have Mark Zuckerberg, he's gonna get ready for one of these things where he's gonna about to get yelled at by the public, and we need a training team that is gonna be able to media him up, and it's a good idea. And then what what I kept thinking about as these scenes were going on is like this is not like a natural place for the conversations that are taking place to happen.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

And well, and I think he tries to save himself by but doesn't he say that a few times like this? He does for this, right? So but you feel Sorkin behind writing that, you know? Yeah, yeah. And then you have Did you did you ever watch the newsroom on HBO, the show cream? Yeah, okay, yeah. This it feels very newsroom coded. And in the newsroom, sometimes you would have something going on in like the A plot, but then the B plot, a lot of characters would just be in a conference room, like in a deposition with Marsha Gay Harden or something. So you're cutting back and forth. This really felt like that to me. Again, that I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's just what it reminded me of.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

Do you know what I think it is? In these scenes, I didn't feel any stakes.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Well, and I think that's that alludes to a little bit of what our expectation was was that yes, and yes, and and and that is true because even like how this sequence ends essentially with the thing, a thing we'll kind of we'll get to. I mean, they didn't make any they said they were gonna recreate January 6th. It's not some damn spoiler. They said they were gonna do that. I knew that like nine months ago. I agree with you because I've seen this guy testify in front of Congress and have trouble drinking out of a glass of water. Like I've seen it. There were no ramifications of it that I know other than maybe some hefty fines that to him to quote Rashida Jones from the social network amount to parking fees. So I yes, I I agree. Not many stakes, other than watch, I'm Aaron Sorkin. I don't agree with what this guy did. I'm gonna get this Bilburr guy to fucking verbally thrash it and tell him to his face, you are wrong, you are wrong, because I have to do that.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Yes, that's exactly, and that's how it comes off, and it doesn't come off in the most organic of ways, whereas there are other scenes in the movie where people are telling Mark Zuckerberg's character um uh information or uh decisions need to be made, or like all these types of things, and those outside of this section, those scenes all to me feel more alive.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Here's the thing imagine no deposition scenes, but you keep all of those. That fucking scene when Mikey Madison goes into his office with you know her team to present to him. It was like watching a different performance, and I went, That's your Oscar clip. That is the performance I've wanted the whole time because he is ice fucking cold, and I don't know your name. I don't need the previously on, just get to the I was like, Whoa, dude, you know that's what he's like. Like you just fuck it with the headphones on, he has to have someone come and tap him on the shoulder. The all those were great scenes, great, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

Or the the one at the end, too, where he's being told and then is sort of like, what are we gonna do? Like all of those, and that was more of him there too. So, but again, these are the these are the things that I think we're talking about when we're talking about it's not a perfect movie in these ways, but but it's not also like like exactly what we said, it's not like this is a bad part of it. It's just that it it it is it is the one that feels a little bit like there there could have been something more there. Don't know what though, but yeah, it's interesting to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

I I I don't know what it would be either, but basically, like the big tension of of the Mark Zuckerberg kind of narrative of the movie is can he get his shit together enough to give a deposition, which is my understanding, he already has a bunch of time. So I'm like, I think it his attitude, the way Strong is playing it, and it had to have been written this way, he's just being like sarcastic, like I'm a professional defendant, and basically being like, My time is so valuable, I have so many other places to be right now. I don't care about this, so I'm going, well, then why why should I care? But but but I I'm I sound like I'm being way too harsh about it though.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

No, you're right. But no, but these are good, these are good criticisms because I felt the exact same way. And I mean, it like then I didn't feel that though. If you're telling me that, you know, and I'm sure Mark Zuckerberg does have places to be and things to be doing, but but I it felt just like a line. It didn't feel I didn't feel like the weight of him being like, like, and it's not it, it's just it just it's it's it just sort of just seems like that entire sequence just had all the air sucked out of it. Like whatever, whatever that was like that needed to happen to make us really, really captivated, just sort of kind of went out. And then we're I was just like waiting for the next scenes to happen.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Yeah, yeah. Especially when like you figure out the timeline that we're in and what day it is specifically. I was like, yeah, this is just plucked right out of the newsroom because you'd and I'd be a bunch of people on like you know, the in the the newsroom and talking, and then suddenly someone would go, you know, blah blah blah, like they're surrounding uh what was it? They're protesting outside of Wall Street, they're calling it Occupy Wall Street. They'd give us like a little ticker tape at the bottom of the date. This felt very coded to that, but again, I didn't mind, and uh just in terms of Sorkin, I mean, I thought this is by far his most accomplished film as a director. I thought it was his most restrained in terms of I mean, there's sorkinisms, they're good speeches, but at not like his previous three movies, especially Molly's game, where I'm like, that I mean, I like Molly's game. I guess I should say, especially Trial of Chicago 7, where some of those there's meandering on with like, look how good my grammar is, and I'm like, Jesus Christ. This, I yeah, it just felt it just flowed like really well, like a nice, nice movie. I liked it.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

It it did, and um, yes, I completely agree. I do think that this is Sorkin's best directorial outing yet. Um, and uh, and I know he didn't even want to direct it that he's said that where you know he this was he wanted Fincher to do it, and there wasn't time, so he's like, Well, I want I it's more important for it to come out now, as opposed to waiting. So he's like, So I guess I'm just gonna do it myself, which again goes back to our expectations. Like you hear a director say that, and it's like, well, that's not great, right? So rushing is more important than than anything else, is what I'm hearing here. And and whether or not that's uh what we still got is what we're saying. It's Aaron Sorkin, in our opinion, it's his best directorial effort.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

I definitely thought so. And let's let's stick with the performances a little bit too. I will get into Sorkin's career in a little bit. Because so, since we're in the you know, that second narrative, I like Jeremy Strong as an actor, I like his performance. The difference about him and other actor actors who practice his technique is I I can kind of like see it on him, and there's always so much talk about like preparation, the preparation, preparation. But he's he's good in it though. But I I I don't know. I he was fine, he was he was good, he was good.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

No, I I agree, and I but I but I keep kind of going back to where we were did we were praising his performance in those other scenes, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Those he's out of the park good. That one in his office. I was like, I mean, just imagine if that was the only glimpse we got of Zuckerberg in the movie, where he's more like this haunting mythical fucking figure just creeping around the halls, or if you just like got if she just got glimpses of him here and there. But yeah, I'm not even including those scenes in like my overall thoughts. I'm mostly talking about the deposition stuff.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

Yes. And um, and yes, I completely agree. Uh it I he he was fine, he was good. But I mean, I mean, uh yes, we are biased here at what are you watching? But the star of this fucking movie is Mikey Madison. She is phenomenal, she's phenomenal in this.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

She dead at her first performance since Inora. She's she's been very choosy since the beginning of her career, and it sounds like she's gonna continue to be. And I I just didn't know how it was gonna go. And I, yes, she really seized the opportunity. I'll address briefly the quote in the press right now. She said the same damn thing on Hot Ones that like she had done this research or was excited to do this research and really portray her character, Frances Haugen, as how she really was, and she read her memoir and all this. And Erin Sorgan was like, That's not really what we're doing, we're just gonna do the script. And like, I I didn't detect any shade from that. I think when people read it in print, it sounds like there's shade, but I I get what he was trying to do. I think that goes back to like, I'm not a skilled enough director to break character down with you like this. Like, I'm just not, so I don't I can't do that. We just have to shoot the script. That's what I got from it. Noting all that, she fucking killed it. Like, she sees it, she's hilarious. I laughed out loud so much, just like getting the toute thrown at her face, you're always high-fiving him. And she was a great nerd. And I didn't, I really didn't think. I mean, your first role after winning an Oscar for Anora, I'm not really getting a lot of nerd from Inora. She she was amazing. I loved it. I love her. I love her so much.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

I think what she her the characterization she brought to this, I thought fit exactly the movie perfectly. Me too. Um, I thought she was specific, I thought she was creative, I thought it was like very, very like honest. And that's about as good as you can ask for. And she's always talking about like, I'm like, I I love my job, and I and I'm not I'm not trying to do anything else. It's the way it's revealed through her performance of those decisions that it's beautiful to watch. And Jeremy Allen White, same thing, like what we said earlier. His his portrayal of this type of journalist and the way that he went about attacking the story and bringing his own sort of charm and unique, you know, Jeremy Allen White to it. I thought, I thought all of it worked really, really great.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

Yeah, I I totally agree. And it didn't even like flirt with the idea of getting it making it romantic between them. Such a smart move. That's where it was really feeling like Frank Capra. I mean, I just finished watching um a few last week. I watched Union Pacific from 1939, directed by Cecil B. DeMille, starring Barbara Stanwyck, and that was my final Barbara Stanwyck movie. So I've now seen all of them. Gonna go move on to her TV shows. There's a she has a lot of those relationships with male co-stars where it doesn't get romantic and they're two people working with each other for a cause. They may not really like each other, they have like, you know, that ball busting thing. And see, you know, you want to know why this worked and Twister doesn't?

SPEAKER_00 40:43

Twisters doesn't?

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Because they well, they lean into it too much in Twister.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

Exactly. That's what I mean. Like they they put that out there way too much. Like in here, you don't ever get that. No, never. And so you you do just have two people where their jobs are their most important thing, but they need each other in order to accomplish what they're doing, and they don't even like each other.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Yeah, not I think no, not not really. The way she's always calling him stupid, but then it becomes because he doesn't know anything about tech, then it kind of becomes becomes you know a term of endearment. It's not like, no, these people are probably still, I mean, these were people in real life. I doubt they're friends and hanging out all the time, but you understand that they develop a very mutual respect for one another, and there's a trust, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

And I think, and I and and I think that's the important thing because for her to be able to just so her character to be able to continue in the way that she does, there has to be something trustworthy. And I think that's something that Jeremy Allen White just kind of has inherently about him. You mean he can play whatever, he's a very good actor, but there is something where, you know, it's like the bear where he's got all these flaws, but you want him, you you know that he can do it, and you could trust him to if he can just get his shit together. So it's a good, it's a good, it's a good quality to have, and I think it's something that um he doesn't even play up too much, but it just exists enough for Mikey Madison's character to be able to do what she does.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Yeah, and they I would love to know like the order in which this movie was shot in, were all the Mikey Madison, Jeremy, all the white, Alan White scenes shot in order, because it really felt like that to me. It just felt like they got stronger together. And again, when we use chemistry, that doesn't necessarily mean romantic. Just like here, it does not mean romantic at all. They just they were two actors really like playing off each other. And I was kind of doing, you know, a little like investigation into how the movie is being received online, and they're doing all their press together, which is really cool, or at least most of it. She was on Hot One solo, but they seem to be doing a lot together, and they seem like they respect each other as well, just like the characters did.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

And they also are very there, both of them are fairly reserved celebrities, actors that are all about the work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:05

And so you're not gonna get like the big bombastic, you know, like like which I like type thing that I mean, I like them, not the bombastic, I like how they are about the work and not she's never had social media. I fucking love that. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

I mean, yeah, and and it and that's and that's why it's really funny because both of them talk about not really having it, yeah, which is sort of like I imagine though, if you're again marketing, you're like, you guys. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Like Sork and can you get me an influencer in this thing? Like, no, I have to go tanning, goddammit. I can't. Sorry, so sorry, Aaron. We we love you, man. We love you. Hey man, do your thing, do your thing. Seems like you're living a clean lifestyle. Get hit that bed, hit that tanning bed. It's all good.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

The best thing for any interviewer to ask Mikey Madison, Jeremy on White as the press goes for this movie is about their acting. Don't ask them about like their outside life. Lives because or how that applies to the movie. And they're not going to give you anything.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

She's great at deflecting too. She'll just like yeah, turn it right back around to hey, whatever. And it shouldn't be about that. I don't want to know things about celebrities. No, I agree. I don't like when they're slammed down my throat all the time. Um, sticking with celebrities and you don't like you know, like the Chalamet route? Jesus Christ. That's what I'm saying. Like, if there are celebrities that are famous, they get nominated for Oscars that deliver good performances. I'm just sticking with like actors right now who you don't see routinely. It's because they're just not going out of the way to like do that shit. Some, like the actor you just referenced, I mean, come on, we know how this shit works. They're contacting the press before they do this shit so they can get photos everywhere. No, I hate that shit. Monty Cliff didn't do that. Monty Cliff just got fucking loaded and went to restaurants and pick fights because he wanted to. He learned learned how to play the sacks from from here to eternity, and it was playing down the hottest shit restaurant in Beverly Hills. He got into a fist fight. I don't think it was much of a fight. I think he just got his ass whipped and then laughed his ass off at the table. It was like, ah, we didn't know anything about him. There wasn't social media. Bad example. I just wanted to talk about it. I think it was a bad, I think it's a bad example. I just wanted to talk about him. That's there. They're not coming to mind. Mikey Madison, I mean, she's so young, she's one. We don't know a lot about her. Think of counterparts. I mean, Zinde is another one. I really respect her. Like, she's someone who is incredibly fucking famous. And we know, I mean, we know about her because of press pictures, which she is not staging at all, but we don't know that much about her. And I love that.

SPEAKER_00 45:40

This is a very different, um, you know, it's interesting to talk about because um, if you kind of just go back into the history of movie stars and celebrities, well, actors in particular, in in the course of movie history, the whole entire name of the game was to remain mysterious. That was the whole fucking point. Yeah. But but that has shifted over the course of obviously the last 25 years, where the 90s were the last time that you know it was cool to kind of remain mysterious. And when you didn't remain mysterious, um, it wasn't looked good upon. It was sort of like, oh, this guy, you know, we know everything about him. He's just sort of kind of a loose canon, or you know, whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

I'm just saying, uh, yeah, there I like some mystery to be there. I don't want to know like Daniel Day-Lewis's hot takes on Twitter. It's like that would fucking be stupid as shit. A director, do your thing, like pop off. I think that's hilarious. I loved when Billy Fried Kid would say shit, Oliver Stone does sometimes. I mean, yes, I I want your characters to be you, I want them to speak for themselves. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 46:50

Yes. And somewhere down the way that changed media now completely changed. So I mean, now if you want to know what someone's favorite food is, watch Andrew Garfield, who I love, on that, you know, one of those ridiculous shows where they're comparing, you know, UK candies to like, you know, so so now all and not that that's an important thing, but that that's part of that mystery that was once there. It was like, you know, that's the thing, like you find these things out about these actors, and it's not like they're interesting, it's not like they're the things you want them to be. It's the allure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're good people, you know. So, yeah, so this so that's the world we live in. And so, yes, all that is a roundabout way of saying, I agree. I like seeing uh these actors that keep that to themselves and keep that mystery around, and then in the right forums, like inside the actor studio, rest in peace, where you would then get a complete unveiling of then that person's like body of work, and you're but you're talking about it in a very sacred way. You know, you don't really know about these people, and the work is still about the work, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Yeah, so props to her. I mean, God, remember when she won an Oscar? Jesus Christ. It's probably still like my favorite Oscar. I cannot, we lost our mind. It's on audio. You go listen to that episode. Like, I was I I just didn't oh man, I just didn't expect it. It's great. She can kind of I'm so excited for her career, and just I will see anything that she does. She seems to be, I forget her next one. I think it's a is about like vampires or some shit. I but it's not like lame, it sounds cool, sounds really cool. I just I loved her, I love her, and she did so well in this. And it it was just great to see. It's great to see.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

And this is the type of old school way that you navigate your career because when you come out of winning the Academy Award, you know, the Mikey Madison seems to be following that route of like, I won this award, and now I'm gonna do a performance that's completely unlike what I just did, and I'm gonna make the characterization of it on par with what I've already done and what I will continue to do. And I think this is how you get that type of career where you do become these A-list, but in for the prestige work, yeah. Like this is how you kind of become those Leos in that way.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

I'm not sensing a lot of, I'm doing this for money behind her choices, which is awesome. And you know, people have different, hey, whatever, like whatever your circumstances, but that's really great. So, yeah, coming up. The one I was thinking of, it's an Edgar Allan Poe adaptation. The Mask of the Red Death, directed by Charlie Pollinger, who did that movie The Plague last year. It's also gonna have Leah Sado, Sadoo, Sado, Sado, and then one that Sado, and then one that seems to be coming up. We'll see. It's scheduled is My Darling California, which would be co-starring Jessica Chastain and who Chris Pine. Oh yeah, fuck yes. We'll see. That's I mean, it's it has a director, it has you know, it's it's a guy, it's a guy who did stuff, so we'll see. We'll see if it goes. But yes, liked her. Jeremy Allen White is someone I'm much more familiar with for his TV work, the bear, the shame. I haven't seen every episode of Shameless, but from that, and you know, I I thought he did well as Bruce Springsteen. I liked that movie a lot more than I thought I would. He played a journalist very well, kind of talked about Strong. All the people with Strong, like Bill Burr, Woon Me Musaku, Billy Magnuson. I who I live. I love that guy. And he was like in that scene that you know we're post-government, he was ice cold there. Like, I just always love that guy.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

He's great.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

All right, Aaron Sorkin. I'm we're gonna I'm gonna go through his whole career. It's not as big as people think, but it is it's so uh culturally important. Like, we quote so much of his stuff, his four shows were you know, they had varying degrees of fame, but one of them was probably still one of the most famous shows ever. So I'll just start. You know, he gets his start writing screenplays, but I'm gonna start with the shows. His four shows that he did. I've seen them all, I've seen everything the man's done. Sports night. This ran for two seasons on ABC, 98 to 2000, 45 episodes. He's credited, he created the show, and he's credited as a writer on all but five episodes. So he's just like churning. I mean, he's doing it crazy. The West Wing, which he creates at the same fucking time. Sports night was 98 to 2000. The West Wing starts in '99. It runs well, it runs until 2006 for seven seasons total, but it was also NBC. But Sorkin left after season four. And when you watch the whole thing, as I did for the first time in first and only time in 2013, I never seen it before. You can tell when he's left. It just it kind of goes downhill. We've all seen that in TV shows. Have you ever seen either of those shows?

SPEAKER_00 51:55

I've seen the I've seen the West Wing. Um, not I didn't see all seven seasons, but I've seen a like I've seen enough of that show. I've I always liked it. I did too. I can I can imagine that you um you are gonna get a drop off if he leaves because there's just uh no one can really write like him. There's he that that is what I think his mark and legacy will and has been. His wit, intelligence is perfect, and it it just sparkles and just flies, and that's why you have to even in this movie, like you have to have actors that can just go really fast because yes, yes, there's a lot coming out.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

Yes, his next show, Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip, it ran for one season, did not do well critically. I had the D I got the DVD here somewhere that I watched every episode, I didn't mind it, but it was positioned oddly against 30 Rock. It was like here's a drama version, here's a comedy version of the same thing. 30 Rock went on for like ever and won a you know, shitload of Emmys, all that stuff. But I I don't know, it's not bad. I think you would like it because of Matthew Perry. He's one of the stars, him and Bradley Whitford. I didn't know if you'd seen it. Matthew Perry. Yeah, he's good in it. I have not seen that. That was my introduction to Sarah Paulson. Him and Sarah Paulson have like a running uh budding romance throughout the whole thing. But yeah, it's I mean, I I wouldn't have minded if it kept going. His next and I guess still final show is The Newsroom. Popular show ran for three seasons, HBO 25 episodes. He Sorkin created and wrote every episode. I he also did with Studio 60, he created and is credited as a writer on every episode. The newsroom's good, it's like it can get a little Sorkiny, it can be hit or miss as it goes, but there are some really, really, really strong moments. Like the very opening scene of the show with that speech that he gives is great, but here Sorkin's politics are kind of you know, we're seeing more of that. But yeah, I I've I'm a fan of the man's work. I guess I could have started by saying that. I like all the shit he's done.

SPEAKER_00 53:57

Yeah, he's one of our contemporary writers that will go down in history as being a writer of his time.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

Mm-hmm. The first screenplay wrote, maybe people have heard of it. It's called A Few Good Men. It was a film directed by Rob Reiner. Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saves lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't want to talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. That's it. No, that's it. How the fuck do you do that? I mean, it started as a play, but my god, I mean, just the whole all of it, like a few good men is genuinely one of my favorite scripts because I think it's hilarious, I think it is clever. Like, I just I love the sarcasm, and god, they got actors that just nailed it. Everyone in it, even you Lieutenant Weinberg, Kevin Pollock is great, like everyone's great in it. What a first script! Right out of the gate, 1992. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 55:23

It's why we still talk about it. I mean, the the the reason these performances are as good as they are is because the writing is as good as it is.

SPEAKER_01 55:30

Next one, he co-wrote Malice, which I just rewatched 1993, directed by Harold Becker, who you have a crazy well, Alec Baldwin's kind of this like psychopathic doctor. He has, you ask me if I have a God complex, let me tell you something. I am God. Just go to YouTube and type in Malice, I am God. You'll everyone will know what it is. That's a fun movie, kind of like an erotic thriller. Not it didn't make my list, though. The erotic thriller list, the coveted W I W erotic thriller list. Next script. Also for Rob Reiner, the American President, 1995. Quite an enjoyable movie. Then there's gonna be a huge gap in the screenplays because he was making all that TV. But we'd go to 2007, Charlie Wilson's War. He writes that for Mike Nichols. Oh my god, do you think do you think that's because my dad was a Greek soda pop maker? I got or do you think that's because I'm an American spy? Uh amazing. His next script, The Social Network, 2010, directed by David Fincher, Aaron Sorkin wins the Oscar. Yeah, I mean, that should have won the Oscar for director in picture, blah blah. I've said that a million times, but what an amazing script. Moneyball the next year, 2011, directed by Bennett Miller. Co he has a co-writing credit with that with Steve Zaleon, another great script. And we jumped to 2015, Steve Jobs, which I rewatched right before going into the social reckoning and had a much higher appreciation for. I had only seen it once in the theater, and I just really liked it at home. I was like, okay, I I don't know, I just I liked it more. And we were we were also talking about it a lot in Vegas about the movie, and it's also Fastbender Man, like god damn, when he was on that heater like 2008 to like 15, just couldn't miss to me. An amazing stretch of mil films and performances. I still love him. I love the killer. Come on now. I love him, but you know, it seemed that the roles weren't coming as like the really good roles weren't coming as steadily. You know, he started a family racing cars, all that shit, whatever. He's a race, he's a race car driver. What do you think of all those? All those scripts.

SPEAKER_00 57:35

I mean, again, like it's it it it it's they're all amazing.

SPEAKER_01 57:39

There's really not like a bad one there, right? Like, there's there's not like a weak one. I mean, Malice is you know, I think that's he gets a credit, but he shares it with two other people, but I still think that's a fun movie. Then 2017, he starts writing and directing. First with Molly Molly's game, then the trial of the Chicago 7 in 2020, then being the Ricardos in 2021. I have two paragraphs of basic trash talking about each movie, and I'm foregoing all of that because they're not coming from the best place. And I've talked about them before, and you know, I do think just I love Jessica Chastain and Molly's game. I like some of the performances. Chicago 7. While I was kind about it on this pod in 2020, it's just it doesn't hold up for me. Ricardo's never worked for me, but now we have the social reckoning, which we didn't have high expectations for, and it exceeded both of our expectations. And, you know, more than an hour in, let's just open it up to whatever the hell we want to talk about. Because this ain't like a movie just that you can spoil as harshly or dramatically as Digger, but that yes, there are things here that you alluded to earlier that are good to save for, you know. I uh I basically learned that people who listen to the pod can make the decision to turn it off once I announce a spoiler warning. I will never like firebomb a spoiler for another recent movie in another movie pod. Like, you're not gonna get a digger spoiler here. Vice versa. I hate that shit. I hate it more than I like winning. Whatever he says. God, I love baby bomb. Uh okay, social reckoning. Let's open it up. Starting kind of with that very first scene when I went, ooh, I don't know. What are we doing here? Where is this going? Why do we need this? Can he land this? But okay, and that was kind of a perfect way to start because me, the naysayers, you put me on my back foot right away, and then you you you followed through.

SPEAKER_00 59:33

It was good. I actually, this is my uh this is my uh hot take for the movie. Oh, all right, give me a hot take.

SPEAKER_01 59:39

Is this the best scene of the whole movie? Interesting. I would have to say no because in the movie the best scene in the movie is to me is that scene in his office. I thought that was exceptional and how ice cold he was, how terrified everyone was. That told me more about the characterization of Mark Zuckerberg than anything else in the movie. Anything, yes, anything, and he doesn't have that many lines, but just I mean, I have known corporate sociopaths not nearly not remotely as intelligent, creative, or you know, financially solvent as Mark Zuckerberg, but I've known people who carry themselves like they're the hottest of hot shit. And that might be my favorite scene, but I think for it to be like the best scene of the movie, you have to kind of know that watching it, like the first time going like, oh shit, I'm in the middle of a good scene. And basically what we find is like, you know, a woman gets pulled over and it it very quickly turns into this, you know, like a cell phone type video that you may have seen where some or whatever, like a white woman is calling out a black cop saying you pull me over because I'm racist. And then I I mean you're not expecting it, but it turns to like this kind of a kind of fuck you, Mr. Woke thing. I bet you're just hired because you're black and oh woke and all that. And you're going, Well, okay, this god here, where the fuck is this going? Like, these don't look like I haven't seen any of this in the preview, and it's a cell phone video, and then it kind of goes away, and then the movie starts. And then we learn a little bit later that this woman, I I guess she's played by Portia Doubleday, who I know and who is good in the movie. I've seen her work before. Yeah, yeah, she did. We learn that this she is a former friend of Mikey Madison's character. She's like, she wasn't like this before. That's I like I wasn't her best friend, but like I try to do some research of what radicalized her. We did, Facebook did. So that's a whole running theme throughout the movie is this sense of radicalization. This was the thing about the movie that impressed me most that I did not expect. Because while I know social media has produced a number of radical causes, all this shit fringe, whatever, blah blah. I know that I've never really heard it explained about how that could happen. And I found all this fascinating in the movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:59

I feel like there's not one person that doesn't have an absolute like one person next to them experience of knowing somebody that kind of I'm gonna get into mine a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:11

Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna keep it general. But yeah, I you're absolutely right. We probably all have someone in our lives, however, whether you're close to them or whatever, who this has fallen victim to this.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:21

Yes, and and and and I think if we can say that we know at least one person in our personal lives that that's I mean, that is crazy. This is just happening at record level speeds to where to where social media is potentially affecting people's personalities in a way because they're gravitating towards certain things and ideals. And uh, man, this is just doubling more and more people that are doing the exact same thing. And to the point where, yeah, we all know somebody.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:52

Yeah, and I mean they even show those experiments like Jeremy Allen White has it's you know, they make it a bit like the Gen Z interns and they're young and they are teaching them how to use the tech. And they do that experiment of signing up on for Facebook under kind of a fake profile and joining all these groups and seeing like how far it can go. And it doesn't take that long to like get to some pretty scary ass places that are on Facebook, but they're in these private groups, and it's like, holy shit, like this, okay, this can happen. That that's a running thread of what Mikey Madison and Jeremy Allen White are doing in theirs. And then I suppose in the future one a little bit, they're trying to show the ramifications of that uh in terms of where it leads. The the deposition room is leading to something not unlike the newsroom, where you don't know, for instance, that this entire day is on January 6th, 2021. So we don't know that until like that pops off toward the end of the deposition, and then you know, he he handled the January 6th footage very well. It was not as overwrought as the trial of Chicago 7 footage. He does not go like full bore with it, he kept it maintained. They gave us, man, that really quick flash kind of early of the boots stomping on the street. And I went, What the fuck was that? I completely forgot about the January 6th, and it's it's a few frames, it's not even a second. And then when I found out what he was doing, I was like, you know, that took some balls. I I like that, I like that, and then yeah, all that it's I mean, dare I say, it's not an overtly it's not a hammer political movie message like we theorized on the digger pod. It is not, and it very easily could be, but it's not like things are referenced yet. Yes, but this is not like a liberalism, despite honestly, the most politically charged scene is that first one they were talking about with this radicalized woman. That's the that's the most thing, and that's charged for a reason. No, I thought it did a great job of not only showing that radicalization, but then showing how that's what you know makes money, that's what gets clicks. That oh Mark, you cannot put wrong disinformation in paid political ads. Yes, I can. I am the public square, I can do that. I'm a free speech absolutist. And I think I knew that at some point. I didn't know that that had gone like that's crazy that on those platforms still right now, you can just put up a paid fake political ad. Like that, yeah, it it handled that well. And just going off some personal experience, keeping it very general, not that anyone that I'm even remotely referencing would listen to this, which is fine. Yeah, I've I've witnessed this happen. I have seen uh people whose core interests are, you know, kind people whose core interests are like beer, uh bad TV and sports be completely and utterly radicalized by social media. COVID had a lot to do with it. And yeah, now I mean, where they have alienated most everyone around them. And I'm not I don't I haven't had Facebook since 2017, I only use Instagram to promote episodes of this pod. Same with Twitter. Like, it's social media is not a part of my life. I will scroll Reddit. I've never posted on it. It's just not a part of my life. And to see this happen, and then suddenly, like, the person who, you know, didn't have a lot of opinions outside of like beer, sports, and bad TV is like telling everyone around them like how to live their life. And it's it, you know, I again, as we said on the digger pod, this is W A Y W is not a political podcast, but a lot of this shit is just fucking nonsense. And a lot of it just isn't true. And now with the advent of AI, it's like the amount of people this shit dupes every day, it's it's shocking. But yeah, the social reckoning is not a I was not left with an obnoxious yes and I was left with Sorkin going, This is how we got here, and I don't ever foresee it getting better.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:56

Hallelujah. Go home. Anyway, what did you think of like how it handled all this stuff? It's a big, big topic. Like radical social media being responsible for radicalizing people to hate groups.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:08

And I think that's what I what I liked about the movie was that it did just focus on that one thing where I mean, you I mean, they even mentioned like there was one scene where you look at the cyberbullying that's going on, you know, like they they bring reference to all the havoc. That's right, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:25

Oh, yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:26

My my expectation of this movie was that this was just gonna be the way that I thought it would work is that they did just focus on one thing like they did, and then it echoes to all the other avenues of social media's you know, havoc that it wreaks.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:43

We talked about this in Vegas, Mike, but we talked about what if it does show the negative effects of social media, but not in this grand uh January 6th way, in a in a kind of quote unquote smaller way. So even like, yeah, her, you know, this amazing genius coder, Mikey Madison at Facebook, overhearing this kind of conversation about how this girl who looked to be cheeses in like sixth, seventh grade getting mercilessly bullied online by classmates, and then her kind of chiming in like you can report it to us, and they're like, Yeah, it's not nothing's working. And yeah, just showing little stuff like that because that shit's real too. As much as I'm talking about, yeah, I know someone who got like c in my opinion, clowned out by social media and turned into this false fucking radical. I also know people who've had extremely negative repercussions from it that they were not asking for, that bullying, albeit whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:34

Well, and uh, and also keep in mind too, like this is this is the you know, we're we're the only one, we're the we're the Jeremy Allen Whites here. We are the last generation to remember all this shit without this.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:46

We're the millennials are the last ones to know a world without the internet, without cellular phones. Like, I I mean that we weren't like I I remember that started to become the thing like when I was a teenager. Like I didn't have the internet it for a very, very long time.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:00

Yeah, we're the last ones. And and so this is just the world that people are born into. And so they, I mean, these things that are happening are just now unfortunately a part of how you grow up or a part of what shapes you when you are already grown up. That's the thing. Like, you know, you've got the cyberbullying on one hand, but then you've got these full grown men and women that are completely going into different places in their lives because of all this. So it was a great way for the movie to just focus on one subject matter that we could follow in an entertaining and um informational way, but then not have it get too message-y with that yes and that that overall problem. And I and and I even the movie just sort of ends with that where where Mikey Madison just says, like, I think it was the perfect way to end it, which was these are like she used listed like two or three examples of when American society needed to take action, and we did. And this is one of those times, and we're not.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:11

Um, and it doesn't even say that either, but we just know that that's but even it ends with some text of like right after she testified, they Facebook changed its name to Meta, which of course they would never never admit it was because of all these articles coming out and all that, but you know, I loved the little dig of that, and then they you know got whatever dinged for political ads with something. So, what did he decide to do about it? Nothing is essentially like the sentiment, like they did nothing. And I loved that it wasn't it wasn't like they did nothing, and then another line of text, and we need to take action. He didn't put it on us at all. He's just showing, like, honestly, the social network is a really good document, already is, and will continue to be for the re for the rest of our lives. Of just like the millennial world we're talking about pre-internet to internet and how you yeah, some genius fucking kids could take this. I mean, they did this in 2003 when the internet was still in its relative public infancy and created this thing that is now defining a lot of culture, it acts as a good artifact. This will too, because this shit is only gonna get crazier. Social media, AI, it's only gonna get whatever, it's only gonna get worse. Or I who knows what what the impact of elections will be. If there are any, I I mean, I just don't, I don't even know. I mean, it again it touches on that with the false political ads, but it's not necessarily hammering it down our throats. I think this movie's gonna age well, despite like Digger, despite how it was being received right now. I think it will age well. But again, man, I went on Letterboxd for like 30 minutes yesterday just looking at Digger reviews, and I was looking, I was I have a lot of friends on there, like a lot of followers, and I'm going, I'm I'm seeing a lot of really, really good reviews here, and a lot like everyone agreeing with us. I and then I haven't really gone and explored this yet, but I don't this is a fine movie, it is a fine, like good-natured, not overly sentimental and compelling film about how we got to where we are social media-wise. I'm talking about the social reckoning, like it was. I'm I'm really happy that I was wrong here. And even after I saw it, I still didn't think you were gonna like it. And I was I kind of I know you you were like I thought you were gonna think it was too like uh whatever, just like gooey or kind of false or bullshit, but I was really pleased to hear that you liked it too. And yeah, I mean, I'm really glad we're standing behind this. I'm excited to see it again because I know I miss some stuff. I it's not that I forgot about like the the online bullying thing, but then it slipped my mind until he mentioned I'm like, fuck, that's right, it did have that. Had it had stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:53

I mean, it and that's the thing, and and that's Sorkin too, where he's he's firing through a lot. He also took his time with these things. I think this he but this was a good example of him directing his own writing in a good way. Um yeah, because I think that's where maybe he kind of gets into the muck a little bit. It's it's sort of like how do we because he knows his writing so well and he's seen how other people shoot it and how other people direct with it, and maybe he hasn't really quite figured out how to do that on his own. I think Molly's game is a good example of that because quite frankly, I'm not I I think that this movie is a uh uh a really, really bad example of voiceover.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:36

Oh, I thought you loved that movie for some reason. I don't know. No, no, I did no the voiceover is not good in it, especially, and I've talked about this before when I read that book, her memoir, and she sought out Sorkin. I went on the Wikipedia, I looked this up. The real Molly Bloom sought him out to write it. So you gotta know what you're getting yourself into, but it is the voiceover is not good, it doesn't sound anything like how she's playing that character. The skid, she's talking so fast, and she just doesn't it, it just doesn't feel aligned.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:07

It's and the the the voiceover is also just completely commenting on what we're already seeing exactly. You don't need it, like the whole movie, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:15

Like I set up expensive poker games and they show like the more expensive table and the more it's okay, yeah. Thanks. You're showing us that. I mean, trust your directing, trust your directing, Sork, and that's what you're trust your directing, and don't have to overwrite this shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:28

And I think I think maybe he those first few outings, I think he's I think he's got a solid, solid outing right here with his movie. And um, yeah, and and and again, maybe this go I did bring this up on our digger episode. You know, maybe this is just another theor part uh addition to my theory that maybe people just don't really want to see movies that are really talking about our current state. I don't know. It we should yeah, be I mean that but I don't know if that's I don't know, but I don't know if that's a theory that's big enough to hold enough water because I mean it it it I forgot to kind of game that out, but like there, you know, you don't uh it it's hard with political movies, you usually need some distance, but I mean I can use JFK as an example that's several decades later, but then a few years after that he makes Nixon, and no one very few people like that movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:26

I love it to be clear. So it just and that was also you know decades later, but then Oliver Stone made W while W was still in office and no one talked about that movie or liked it. I it's it yeah, it's harder. I think that's why no real Iraq war movie did that good until the Hurt Locker, and that's really like the only one that did good. But for those years, I mean they started doing that right after we got into that, like they started making those in 2003, and everyone's like, it's just it's just it's too soon. Like, there aren't too many good Vietnam movies while it was going on. People needed a little distance, and then they got burnt out because by like after Born of the Fourth of July, it's like we don't want these anymore. We're good, we're good on Vietnam. Like, we're we're good. So yeah, I I don't know. Maybe I'm saying maybe this is what people think these movies are gonna be, and they're just gonna be this like constant political bashing, and they're not. And you know, if it takes streaming or something for these to have a life, I mean, I'll get people to watch these. I've texted a lot of people being like, and and it's exactly what I told you immediately. I said it's not well. What I'm telling people is that social reckoning is not like a great sequel to the social network, it's a really good journalism whistleblower movie, it's just trying to be its own thing. And if you go in with that, you you'll appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:46

Yeah, and and again, and maybe people, yeah, maybe it's a situation where it's like I don't want to go in and sit through a two-hour movie about an issue that I'm very well aware of that is a problem.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:02

This is what you and I said on the pod, basically, you know, and we're we're just movie freaks, so we go. So I yeah, maybe everyone just kind of shared that sentiment.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:12

I don't know. But when you when you when you do come on the other side, like how we are, and you know, talking about how you know this this one is a much more straightforward, entertaining film, I think. Yeah. Um, just just of of of a journalistic story. Digger is the one that is gonna give you a little bit more of like that think piece type thing, and um, but it's so artful. And but when you come on the underside of all of these, what you do recognize is that it's not about this bashing in the head of it. It's I mean, yes, but it is gonna point out some things that so maybe people just don't really want to just like I just don't want to think about that. I want to go to the movies and I want to go away from politics. I want to take a journey, journey to Troy. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I mean, maybe there is something to that right now. Screaming around.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:09

Yeah, I'm going in. But uh my showtime is in 90 minutes. I'm just saying this for the listener. Have I seen it enough? I'm not saying that to hurry her up. I'm just very excited. Yes, I think this is what people are more in line with. They want to be entertaining fast cars, fast planes, ships. Uh, by and large, yes, it doesn't seem like people are really on a political tip right now, even if the movies aren't like we're political.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:33

The thing that I understand, if we're gonna go by that theory, that makes sense to me in terms of people not showing up in the box office because they they've decided I don't want to deal with that. That's all fine. I can actually wrap my head around that. What I can't is the bad reviews. Because those are the ones that don't make any sense. Agreed.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:53

Uh actually fully agree. I don't understand this. The the digger, especially, like I went on to I'm seeing reviews and I'm going, well, I'm just I don't know, I'm not seeing where is all this hate coming from? And it that one seemed to be like I didn't hear anything about the social network before I saw it. Digger was like two weeks of these, uh, it's uh the movie sucks, not what you think it's gonna be. I don't understand, and that more than ever, I just don't understand the role of I don't consider myself like a film critic. That's not really the role of what are you watching? I'm just recommending movies that movies that people should watch. A film critic is gonna like kind of take everything that's coming out, maybe necessarily, and review all of it. I don't choose to review the dog shit that I see, not by and large, and I watch a lot of it. Trust me, I'm trying to just guide the ship a little bit. My own odyssey here is to guide listeners to like movies that we recommend. And if you know, if we say that there's a movie that we don't like that you do, that's fine. Like I'll hear those arguments too. But more, moreover than anything, I think in the six and a half years of this pod, it's like we like to really stand behind movies that we like, including and especially ones like this where the reviews are just baffling to me. I haven't sat down and read 20 of them, but I'm going, What what is the disconnect here from the critical consensus? What the fuck are you all looking for? Explain like seriously, explain it to me. If this is not good to you, if this is quote unquote rotten, if Digger is rotten, what are you looking for? I just I I don't like do you not want originality? Or in this, do you not want like a well-made old school conventional film? What what do you want? You're the critics, you're the one supposed to be like guiding us. Don't leave it on me. I'll take it, I'll take the mast. Is that what it is? Sorry, and is that is that how how you steer? Sorry. I'm just saying, I think it and this this doesn't about to go off because honestly, one of the biggest things this happened for was Blonde, and that movie wasn't on my mind a lot, but we brought it up with Digger. No one, no one, no one like that, except a few other film freak podcasters I found who were like us, but I'm going, come on, can we not give like a little fucking appreciation from like the mass critical consensus? But they're the ones that are jumping on this bandwagon of no talking fetuses and all that. And I'm going, where's the like the objective artful discourse here? I don't, and yeah, I I'm seeing that now, and I I just don't really understand it, and it's baffling to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:27

Well, and this is why it's very fascinating is because you are looking at literally two different movies with the social reckoning and digger, where it is like, Yeah, what do you want then? Yeah, because I I I get it if you don't like Digger because it's a little too weird, but here's your not weird movie. Exactly. Here is there's nothing weird about the social reckoning, and it's so it's sort of like, all right, if you don't like the way that Digger is sort of out there doing its thing, then then I'm sure then you'll be fine with the social reckoning, or vice versa. But no, they don't like either one. And I'm like, well, that doesn't make any sense. I have a friend of mine, he asked me what I thought about Digger, and I go, Well, I can tell you what I think, but I can also tell you what I think that you're gonna think, knowing you. And he goes, he goes, I go, I don't think you're gonna like it based on where you're at right now. But he got back to me and he was in an outrage because one, he loved it, and two, he couldn't believe he was giving me like he started, he started to get me all fired up like you. He goes, What are these reviews? I don't get it. I really don't. And and he was and and he was listing all of these things, and and I was sort of like, My man, you're um you're you're a thousand percent speaking my language right here. I don't get it either. But he was blown away by how much he liked it and like what it was, and and and he goes, It's not like the best thing I've ever seen or anything like that, but it's just like it's good, it's just good, yeah, and and it, and it's and it's and it's done very, very well. So that this doesn't make any sense that it's getting all this harshness uh for it, and um so yeah, so I don't know, it's a very wild situation.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:08

I'm I'll be interested to see how the box office does for the rest of the year. Are people are they just sitting it out between Odyssey and Dune 3? Is that what's happening here? Because we all know that's gonna make a shitload of money. Like, I I mean, people showed up like the Odyssey is very successful. I'm extremely happy. A lot of other movies have you know done okay, and it not like the invite was well received and made decent money, and it's gonna get nominated for Oscar. So I'm not saying Obsession was a massive critical hit that didn't, but again, go back and read those reviews first run run reviews. You're not seeing a lot of like uh the greatest horror movie. Like you're not the critics were downplaying it too. The whole fucking thing feels weird to me, and I don't understand. Like, he any Ritu wins director for Birdman and then the next year for the Revenant. Great feat. No one gives a shit about Bardo, I get it, that's fine. But there seems to also be this like cultural deappreciation for his films that I really don't understand. And I mean, if you love Tom Cruise's an action star, like why not go see him do something different? He's still entertaining his shit in it. I I don't know. That's my mini, it's my mini rant. I just don't, I I don't know, I just don't really get it. I'm at least with critics, like I and then I there's still a lot of people who listen to critics, you know. That's why audiences don't necessarily show up. And now that movies get pulled out of theaters so quickly, like something like Digger, if it was gonna be in theaters for full show times, let's say four show times like a day at your theater for seven, eight weeks, like it used to be, so two months, I think that could gain some legs, and I think it could end up in one of those weekends actually making more money than it did its opening weekend. I would say the same is true of the social network, but I think these are gonna be pulled ASAP.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:55

I don't disagree with that, and uh you know, and but then like where can you actually trust like thoughtful art criticism? That's what I mean, and um, because I I can't even think of like like individual critics. I don't have like a couple that I can always go to because it's oversaturated with you know, when you go on like all these critic things, it's sort of like, well, who is talking? You're working for a publication, but you're now just another person that I've like never seen your name and you're giving me these opinions, or God forbid, you go on Rotten Tomatoes and just see the swill that's on there.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:31

That's what this pod has always tried to be. We've tried to get a little above the swell to however many people we can reach.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:37

If this is anything, it's that we'll we'll always be honest and we'll always admit when we are wrong, just like this. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:43

I mean, and that's another reason why I was poking so much fun at this movie because I knew because I said if I'm gonna be busting its chops like this, I'm gonna dedicate an episode to it. Because if it is good, then I honestly I was prepared to talk about Aaron Sorgan's career for like an hour today and the social reckoning for like 10-15 minutes because kind of like disclosure day, because we didn't like that movie, kind of like that. And we just talked about Spielberg for like two hours because what a lot to talk about with that movie, and that's that's fine. But I there's not there's rarer a great greater feeling to me than a movie defying my expectations.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:19

Like, I yeah, I I walked into this too, and again, like we always talk about this too. Whenever we do have low expectations, I do not go in with those gonna rule the situation. Like, I'll walk in and be like, yeah, I don't, I'm worried about this movie, I don't know what it's gonna do, but I'm also gonna drop all of that and see what it does. And then when you come out of a thing like this one, we're like, wow, I'm happy that like that one it did meet my or it surpassed what I thought, but also that I'm happy to say I'm wrong. Yeah, and that is something that no one knows how to do anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:53

Well, yeah. Will the social reckoning garner a single Oscar nomination? Do you think? Not what we I wanted to. I mean, what if she gets in there for actor? She obviously will not win, but what if she gets a nom? I mean, Jeremy Strong seems like he they like him there. I mean, the awards likes him. He's not in it a lot, but I I would be very happy with is I don't know if this isn't adapted. I guess it technically would be since it's like a sequel. I I don't know, a screenplay nom. Whether it's original or adapted, I'm not sure. I think that would be appropriate.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:27

I think we will see a screenplay nom. And I think we'll see some kind of acting show up. I I actually I do think we're gonna get a Mikey Madison best actress nom here. Um certainly not a win because you know she but but I think she will get into this mix. Jeremy Strong is a great um like to me that's on paper, like that's uh that that seems like it would fit. It's an it's a narrative that uh that I think would. Coast along well with with the award season, but I personally wouldn't nominate the performance for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:07

I wouldn't either. I would nominate her. I would throw I mean if we're doing it, should be five nominees. I don't we'll see at the end of the year, but for the 10, I I can I'd probably throw it in there. Now, unlike Digger, there's not a lot of like great ingenious technical stuff to talk about with this. Or even the social, like the social network won for score. This is not gonna be nominated. I mean, Alexander Jess Bilot that did the score, he's won Oscars, but I yeah, I'm not cinematography. I I don't think really any quote unquote below the line stuff. This isn't a movie that you're gonna remember for its sound. It's yeah, it's screenplay and maybe a performance. I mean, I think they nominated Chastain and him. Nope, she did not get nominated, just him. He got nominated for adapted screenplay. Okay, so yeah, that wouldn't surprise me. Trial Chicago 7 got all these noms and then fucking three enemy noms for being the Ricardos. It's goes for both of them Ricardos and Chicago 7. It's because there was like nothing else. So we'll see. I won't be surprised, and I hope it happens. I guess I won't be terribly disappointed if it doesn't. Was being the Ricardos who was in that? Was that Antonio Banderas? That's Nicole Kidman, Javier, Nicole Kidman as Lucille Ball, Javier Bardem as Desier, and then J.K. Simmons slid in there for a supporting nomination as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:24

It's not a good movie. No, I I for some reason I was thinking of the laundromat with uh Meryl Streep and Antonio Banderas and Gary Olvis. But that movie's really good. That's right, Storeburg. I don't know why that I got confused with those. Anyways, doesn't matter. Yes, I think I think that's what we're looking at. I think we're looking at I think definitely a screenplay nom, not a director, not a picture.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:46

Maybe maybe a pit maybe picture with the 10.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:49

Maybe picture with the 10. Yeah, I could see that. And then um, and then uh and then yeah, and then at least one acting nom.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:58

White, maybe? I mean, uh, he does well with Emmys. May I I don't know. We'll we'll we'll see. I don't know. He he's right on the edge of like I think they're I think both men would be supporting. I think Jeremy Strong and White.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:11

I think Jeremy Allen would would be supporting. Um, yes, I think they would both be in there because I think we're we're already looking at a pretty stacked best actor category that that needs to be filled out in a in a in a in a uh a uh certain way that we are already kind of shaping up to be. So um yeah, I think it's gonna be tough for that. Um, but for actress and supporting, yeah, maybe, maybe these Al Alan White could get in there.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:42

Maybe, maybe. All right, we'll see. Uh yeah, very happy to be proved wrong. Honestly, this is like obsession was a huge surprise because that's just a monster hit that came out of no the nowhere. But in terms of my expectation, and in terms of my expectations and level setting them, social reckoning is probably my biggest surprise of the year. Pleasantly surprised.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:01

I mean, um, I I think I definitely gonna give it my biggest uh what's the word? Um surprise in terms of it being better than I thought it was gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:12

Sure, yeah, fair, yeah, totally. All right, let's move to W A Y W. We forgot to do one for Digger, even though it could like we were recommending that. We're we're also recommending social reckoning, but you know, let's just throw a few out there. Whatever you got, whatever you got. We can talk about a shared one if you want.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:29

Oh, yeah, we we can yeah, we let's do that one, let's get into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:31

Okay, let's get into it. So we did see Digger and Las Vegas, and then the next day, we're like, Oh, what should we do today? You know what we should see? We should go fucking see Verity directed by Michael Scho Walter, starring Dakota Johnson, Josh Hartnett, and Anne Hathaway. What did you think about this movie? I also 32 on Rotten Tomatoes, and which is uh fair. It had a budget of 40 million, it's already made that back in the US, so it's made it's money. It's we had fun, we had a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:02

Listen, I am a complete sucker for these types of movies. Yeah, I uh but but the the difference is you know, it's so funny because I'm a snob because I won't just watch a lifetime version of the like they do these all the time on, you know, uh, and I need a little bit of star power in these to get me going, but you could give me Dakota Johnson, Josh Hartnett, and Ann Hathaway, and put a really, really dumb movie in front of me that's just done in the certain style of these lifetime, you know, thriller type things, and I'm on board. I I had a great time with you watching this movie. Yes, it's dumb, and there is a giant problem with the end.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:50

Like it's so we're not gonna spoil what it is, but the last five minutes are so fucking stupid. It's a real miss. Like it's the type of thing that really it wants to add mystery and only creates confusion. That's it. And it's a it's a very it's a it's a tough balance. They do not achieve it here, and you don't need it.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:08

You just don't need it. You don't need it. And and here's the thing on my letterbox review, I uh I I gave this three stars when the ending alone deserves it to drop something because the ending is so bad. Yeah, at least the half star does the re I at the end of the day. Here's the deal we had a lot of fun. I walked out of that experience. We were making fun of the ending as opposed to it being a situation where we were like second guessing our entire experience with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:42

We were like, Yeah, I didn't know what the movie was gonna be necessarily about, beat for beat, but I knew it was gonna be silly, and I just wanted them to kind of embrace that campiness a little bit. It did, and like they were all uh the three, they were having a fine time. They all the kid was good, like I was fine, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:57

Like, I mean, that's the thing is like really I kind of got to give credit to Dakota Johnson because we're really watching the movie through her character's experience, and she she fucking shoulders the weight of that to an enjoyable experience to where this type of movie is fun, and we completely forget, or don't forget, but we let go of a giant ending problem. And um, you know while it is no the housemaid, let's say that, because we all know how I feel about I love that movie, I think that movie is an absolute blast. That got a three and a half for me. Verity gets a three.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:36

Verity's taking itself a little more seriously than the housemaid, I believe. But but yeah, I mean, they're you know, there's similar, somewhat like similar territory. There's just some stuff in Verity. I I mean it was I said it was trash that we very much enjoyed. I am not adverse to trash cinema, exactly erotic thrillers, whatever. This wasn't really like an erotic thriller, but it it's just it it was fine. And I think even if you I hadn't even seen the trailer, but the poster, what the stars, what you're hearing about it, I was not surprised at all like what we got. So if you're gonna walk into something like that, why you know hate on it? Like we knew what we were getting, and we went and yeah, we had fun with it. We were laughing, it was just fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:17

And and and the movie gave us exactly what it was. I think it could have gone a little bit further into just having more fun with itself, yeah. Um, but uh, but nevertheless, you could do a lot worse.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:30

You could. I'll do you want me to do my second one and then you do yours, or what you're doing. Yeah, sure. Yeah, because it kind of goes in the same vein and it's getting absolutely just like excoriated right now. Other mommy, my wife and I went to we were on a little mini vacation in Knoxville, Tennessee. We uh got a little intoxicated and went to Other Mommy, starring Jessica Chastain, which has a whopping 16% on Rotten Tomatoes, even though it has also it made back its budget in US box office alone its first weekend. It like, what do people expect with this? In my letterbox review, I listed 20 other movies that are recent ones in this genre that I like less than other mommy. And I I even left out the big ones, like the really big ones. But there's all this like garbage that comes out passenger that's passengers, like there's I can't heart eyes. Was that one? I mean, there's so many that come out that uh Wolfman they're like just boom, boom, that I really forget like very shortly after leaving. This, I mean, it's dumb, it's silly, but the only reason we saw it was because we laughed our ass off every time they showed the trailer, which was before every screening of the Odyssey. So we're like, we have to go see this, and it was silly, but like Chastain's good. Also, the kid, the girl, the daughter in it is very good, and it it has some sneaky stuff about it. It it's uh not even low-key, it's just it's all it's a divorce movie, it's all about like parent you at us having to lie for our parents, kids having to lie for their parents to propagate these, like you know, lies to maintain the facade of whatever a good marriage or divorce. Maybe there's you know a little oolala going on. Oulala if you saw the preview, if you saw the preview, I think you know like what to expect. 16 is just ridiculous. Like, I grade movies like this kind of on a curve because I'm like, I I don't again, critics. Like, I don't know what I don't know how Rotten Tomatoes necessarily works if you just choose one of the other. I would absolutely choose this to be fresh because I got exactly what I thought it was gonna get, and it was pretty hard. R had some gnarly ass kills. It's fine. Forgot to say that about the social reckoning. I appreciated that it was R. There's some like silly ass uh ADR in the social network, like let's cut the friggin' nerd. You know, there's stuff like that. They just kind of embraced being able to say fuck once or twice, or you know, eight times in the social reckoning. I like that. Other mommy deserved its R. Fine horror movie. I don't know what the people what the hell people are on about. I don't know what you expect from these type of movies.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:03

I I think this was one where um it it it seemed like unfortunately, from those summer trailers in front of the Odyssey, every single screening of the Odyssey that I went to, people were laughing at this movie. Me too.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:21

That's what it's for. We were laughing our asses off at it. We didn't take it fucking seriously. Come on, like it's not trying to win Oscars. But yes, I I I know, but like there was like a whopping eight of us in the theater, and we were fucking howling the whole time.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:35

But I think people made up their their minds about it. I think it's a good one. Yep, and and and there, and unfortunately, you know, when you go into a movie when you are just you're going into it and you're like, this is going to be stupid in not a fun way, then as soon as you see something stupid, it doesn't make you have fun, it just reinforces what your expectation was going into it. So you just walk away being like, Yeah, that was as bad as we thought it was gonna be. And that's not necessarily it'll do all right on streaming.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:09

Yeah, I'm sure it will. Oh, I think it'd be fun. Like, if if it drops on Netflix like first first week, it'll start to catch on. It was 90 minutes. How about that? 90 minutes with credits. Yeah, and hey, cruise. Social social reckoning is one hour and 52 minutes. We're getting there, baby. I've I forgot to mention that it is his shortest movie, Aaron Sorgens directed by about 20 minutes. And you feel that Molly's game for one is 30 minutes way too long. And when we say that, that doesn't mean the last 30 minutes are unnecessary. I'm saying there's about 30 minutes of just fat and extra unneeded voiceover. Voiceover. Yeah, and I I dug the shorter running running time. It moved. It doesn't need to be over two hours. Social reckoning. Digger is not long, digger's like two nine, but you also have credits, you know. They're yeah, it's it's nice. So, what's your other WOIW worn piece?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:59

So, um, I I am um you I know you've sent me you've got I know you've got some things to say about this, and I have not finished it, but I have started East of Eden on Netflix. Oh, okay, and I am loving it.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:13

It is because it's got our guy, and he's just uh that mother Christopher fucking Abbott is a cut above the rest. I love him as much as I love Mikey Madison. He is older than her, he's the generation older, but I think he is the best actor of his generation. I've I'll stand on that.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:29

I of course I'm right there with you with Abbott, but I am so impressed by his brother, who is the guy in Challengers, and I can't think of his.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:37

Very impressive. He was in Challengers, and in um a lot of people thought he should have been nominated for an Oscar for Spielberg's West Side story. I'll look him up, deserves to be named. Mike Faced. Feist, Faced, Mike Faced, yeah, face, feist.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:50

He's quite good. He's he is um he blows me away in every single scene, but I am very much in this world. I've been um working on the play Long Day's Journey into Night for my acting class, and I've read Eugene O'Neill's very first play, Beyond the Horizon. All of these plays take place in the exact same time period as this East of Eden, because John Steinbeck, he was a writer at that time. It's very, very fascinating to kind of be living into this world of where, you know, this wasn't that long ago. No, you know, these 1900s, you know, the like, yes, that was like over a hundred years ago, but when you look at the difference of what society was, it's so fascinating that like you just that was how it was. Like you you were born wherever you were, and you just didn't leave. Like that was and and you did what you were told, and what father said goes, and and and then no one ever left marriage is like it was just I don't know, it's just it's wild just to think that when you look at what East of Eden is and how people were ruling their lives when it really wasn't that far ago, like that was that's not that long ago in the in this in the scheme of how far we've come, but um just so fast and I think every actor Florence Pugh is amazing in it, the writing is great. It is dark. This was something that you brought up uh to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:19

You mean visually, not it is dark, but visually I I can go into this a little bit when you're when you're done. I'm on episode two, and I'm gonna restart. I'm on three. Okay, yeah. I need to yeah, I'm I need to set us set aside like you know, like honestly, five hours. That's how I would like to do it because it's moving. It's it's well done, it's a good show.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:38

It's well done, and it is not falling into the trap that I have an issue with when it comes to these formulaic limited series where they just like to just give us that dopamine hit of problem conflict resolution, problem conflict resolution, just keep doing that. It is a slow burn, and I think it's burning real, real well. These performances are amazing and they're very lived in. They've taken really good care of this, as they should, considering that it's you know, Zoe Kazan's grandfather, father, grandfather, grandfather, Ilya Kazan made the movie starring James Dean, that is one of my dad's favorite movies.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:17

That I have not read the book. It's my dad's favorite book, East of Eden is. Um, the James Dean movie only covers one portion of the book. It doesn't, you know, the show is doing the full book now, but it's just one little portion. So I'm gonna do I'm gonna do the show and then go back to the movie. I was I was like, oh, I'll do the movie first, but no, I want to see what the show does with it. So I've just been basically introduced to Florence Pugh, and you know, she's another. I just I love her of you know the generation. I think she's a hell of a performer. And this is yeah, this Mike Face is even so far is really impressing me. Just all the stuff that's going on with him. Tracy Letz was their dad, he's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:54

Always love Tracy Letz, always amazing actor, amazing playwright, uh, really, really great.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:02

Do you know anything about like his podcast life? No, Tracy Letz basically like if there's a when there's a criterion drop, buys them all. He has like tens of thousands of movies, and he's married to Carrie Kuhn. So yeah, you know, they like watch one or two things every night. He just has everything, and I guess that's his way he's described it as like you know, he's wrestled with his own demons in the past, and now that he's living a nice, clean lifestyle, he's like, This is the thing, this is what I love. I collect movies, I don't give a fuck. And he's got them all listed and organized. So that man is like the probably the living king of physical media, Tracy Letts. And I'm not just amazing. It really inspires me not to buy more, but just to really watch like all of my collection and you know, yes, I'll fit in East of Bean streaming, but I really I just love popping in the the 4Ks, the Blu-rays, even good old-fashioned DVD.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:53

I love it. I mean, I've even I've I've found that with some of my old school DVDs, like I'll I kind of I will if I know that it's streaming, I'll put in the DVD more over than watching the streaming, and then I'll kind of check to see the quality. I can see a difference, but I don't know, there is something special. There's something really special about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:14

It's like a time and place. I talk about this with Ali a lot. You don't notice the difference as much in DVDs, like like I had the revenant on DVD, it fucking looked good because it's digital 4K, like it it looked okay. I have the 4K now, which obviously looks better. You notice it more with like cool hand luke. You notice it if you're trying to put in that DVD, and then if you see like no Paramount Plus has a 4K render of cool hand luke, you're gonna be like, Oh shit, okay. And that I have done sometimes because yeah, but often I'll go time to upgrade. Like, if I if I'm watching a streaming thing because I haven't upgraded my DVD to 4K, that'll often be the incentive. But yeah, physical media lives on, yes, social network. Watch that shirt, but social reckoning, go see that. Verity, go have fun. Other mommy, go watch fucking heads explode and decapitate. It was awesome. Have a little, you know, fun your favorite thing, favorite things. Um, East of Eden, yeah. We'll report back on that. So anything else? You got anything else for me? That's all I got, Hoss. You got anything else that's your current status? Do you even put statuses on Facebook anymore? I've not been on the platform in nine years.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:18

I mean, I really only go there because that's where all my oldest pictures are. Oh, okay. Well, yeah, good.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:24

They guess who can see those anytime they want? Probably using them for AI right now as we speak. Oh, probably go to w aywpodcast.com to let us know, to send us comments. You can donate if you're feeling generous. Merch. You can always buy merch. And then, of course, patreon.com slash W A Y W is where you'll find bonus features. Did he have you seen the next few movies we're doing there? Is fan pick deep dives? Did you see the recent one? The great John Klein picked Empire Records, which you know about it. Oh, that's right. Yes. My cousin, my cousin, great guy, great guy joined our Patreon. He recommended or said boiler room. So we're gonna cover fucking boiler room, dude, right? That took me back. I was like, where did you pull that one from? He said I recommended it to him, you know, whatever, 25 years ago. So yeah, go over to Patreon. We got a lot of fun stuff over there. But yes, we love Patreon, we love all of our listeners, made feed everywhere. But as always, thank you so much for listening and happy watching. Go watch Social Reckoning if you can. We really did like it. Go watch Digger if you can. We really did love that one too. We've talked about a few brand new 2026 movies, but next time we're taking it back old school, W-A-Y-W old school, doing a nice little list, we're just having a general discussion about a random topic: director's cuts versus theatrical cuts. Which ones are better in general? We're gonna cite specific examples. Sometimes you see, you know, one of your favorite movies has an extra hour added to it. What does that mean? Does that make it better? Does it make it worse? We're gonna talk about a lot of the directors who love directors' cuts. Michael Mann just released another cut of Miami Vice. Why? I don't know. We're gonna talk about it all. Stay tuned.