195: Director’s Cuts vs. Theatrical Cuts

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hey everyone, welcome to What Are You Watching? I'm Alex Whitthrow and I'm joined by my best man, Nick Dostal. How you doing there, Blade Runner?

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Ooh, yeah, let's go. You can't see it right now, but I'm making scissors across this. He's making making cuts.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

But that's I mean, that's one way to do it. Making cuts, but we can also, what's the visual cue for throwing stuff back in? Just throw it back in. Throw it. Give me give me my deleted scenes back. My deleted scenes that were deleted for a reason. Put them back in there. Yeah, that's gonna make it better. Bigger the better. Or is that the case? Is that the case? Is a nice, fun little main feed episode, which we have a loose outline. It's more like a topic discussion point the whole time. Directors' cuts versus theatrical cuts. Another way to word it. Are directors' cuts better? Another way to word it. What are the best directors' cuts ever made? There's so many different ways to talk about this. I still, as of this recording, don't even know what the hell I'm gonna title the episode genuine generally genuinely. But we're here today to talk about in general, and we're here today to talk in general about directors' cuts of movies versus theatrical cuts, why d why directors' cuts exist, who kind of holds the market for this. Because when you start researching directors' cuts, you see uh one or two names pop up constantly. I like the same five names pop up over and over. And that's this is something Nick and I have talked about personally a lot in the you know more than a decade we've known each other of like directors' cuts we like, some we don't. And this is a like a movie nerd episode because we're really I mean, we're talking about like watching and re-watching movies multiple times to understand the differences. But that's all this is gonna be today. Are we just gonna talk about the notion of a director's cut in general? We're gonna bring up some directors who do them quite often, some movies that are very famous for being cut and recut, and then you know, I have a laundry list of some of the most, you know, famous directors' cuts ever, but there's so many to choose from. So I just wanted to set it up like that. That's what we're doing. That's what we're doing here today.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

The director's cut, the director's cut episode, and then and then we'll and then we'll make a cut to this episode that will be the the five hours listener's cut.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Right, yeah, exactly. It'll be five hours, but like in general, how do you feel about director's cuts? Like when you see it or you hear that one's coming out. I you myself used to get really, really excited for this stuff, and I'm like, oh, a movie I like more. They're gonna I or movie I like, they're gonna add more stuff into it than I'm gonna like. Oh, this is gonna be so fun. And then as you start kind of chipping away over the years, and or you go back to them and you're like, eh, I don't really, I don't know, I don't really see why this is necessary. So it's gonna be a fun conversation because I've seen some directors' cuts where I'm like, you didn't need to do that, and some where I'm going, why the hell was that not in the theatrical cut? It's so much better. So, in general, how do you feel about them?

SPEAKER_01 3:14

I mean, in general, I I I'm excited by them. I uh I am too. I but but I am as soon as excited as I am, I am then met with the opposite side of the coin, which is like, but how what do we do in here? Because I think the thing that I'll think of is like, ooh, there's something that the director wanted to say or wanted to do that didn't get in the original, and I want to know what that is. Most of the time I find that that idea is way more interesting than what the actual cut will do. There are exceptions, and then the worst case is when you get a director's cut and you're like, you just ruined like like why in the world did you even do this? I think those are rarer, though. I think for for most parts, I think a director's cut, especially like for some of them, you're like, Well, there's very two very different versions to this that we can see. So, but I think it just in general, do I like directors' cuts? Yes, I am interested, I'm intrigued, and I will want to watch.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Yeah, well said. I'm I'm the same way, and it's kind of in like to talk about these generally can be a little hard. I'm gonna cut to I made five, what I think are like the starting five most discussed directors' cuts ever. It doesn't mean you, you know, it you have to have seen them all or you have to like them all. I should have included one from because right now I have two Ridley Scott. I should have included one from my man Michael Mann, because I mean, well, that that's a perfect way to start.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Those two, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

This is a per Michael Mann is a perfect way to start because we're record. Um by the time this episode's by the time this episode comes out, I will have already seen it, but he is re-releasing Manhunter in the theater. It's called The Director's Final Cut, and you're going, All right, man, like I already really like the movie. I'm I'm ecstatic. A lot of directors, what Michael Mann is doing is using the 4K release of his movies to kind of put some put some touches on it. So, like Michael Mann with Heat, there aren't too many people who can tell the difference from like I owned Heat on VHS, I now own it on 4K. I know he's gone through and like made some effects a little better, some sound effects, stuff like that. I don't really notice, so I don't know if that's gonna be like the Manhunter type treatment, or he goes Miami Vice, which when he released that director's cut on Blu-ray, and it was the only cut, no one liked it better. Like, no one all because the the fans of that movie were already hard to find and were like, dude, we were in your corner, and now, like, we love starting in the club. Now you got to starting on this boat race. Oh, and then and then, as I just learned, because Miami Vice is not available in 4K, but it will be very soon being released with a new cut.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

No, it's not, Michael Matt.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Yes, it is. It is, it's I think it's called the director's final cut because it's like you gave us the theatrical cut, then we got the director's cut, now we're getting the director's final cut. So, kind of, I think a good way to start for me is if I just see director's cut, I'm like, okay, I have to do a little digging because if there was studio involvement and they messed with something, James Cameron's The Abyss is a really good example. It always had this huge ending, and then the studio's like, This is too long, it's too big, you gotta hack it out. So, for theatrical, he does and he makes it the abyss considerably shorter. But that is studio involvement, so that's a director's cut where I'm like, all right, I want to see what he did there, and that is one where I think I like the director's cut of the abyss so much more than the theatrical, and I really liked the theatrical, but that's because there was studio involvement. Michael Mann, at this point, if he had studio involvement for Miami Vice, he didn't have that with the second go round, he didn't have studio involvement on the director's cut. So, this constant re-tinkering and going back, I'm like, how many fucking times are you gonna do it? Like at some point, they touch it so much it's impossible to find the original. Like, yeah, I would argue blade runners like that, where it's like, What how could you even find the original cut of this movie?

SPEAKER_01 7:19

So you have to have that DVD box set exactly.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Yeah, we're we're gonna talk about a lot of this, but there are different kinds. If a studio was involved and they hacked in a movie, and the director is now being given their footage back, and they are allowed to release their cut outside of studio involvement. I am interested. But if you were a director who had final cut when you released the movie, and now you're just going back because you want to fuck with shit, I'm not really here for that as much. Here's another great case in point Terminator 2. Oh, that the director's cut of that. You and I actually watch it when you visited me earlier this year, and we were like, This is not good. There's way too much explanation of everything, way too much. So, even when I saw that 4K in theaters this year, it it they are calling it a director's cut, it doesn't have those deleted scenes, but he has all the updated effects, so it's not like the stunt man on the motorcycle anymore who picks you know him up off who picks John Connor up off the bike. It's an AI Arnold, and I don't really like that. Like, I liked being able to see the stunt man. I mean, we talked about that with face off, like you can see the stunt man, it's kind of fun. So, yeah, it's gonna be a fun conversation. There are a lot of places to go, but like, yeah, I mean, uh I I don't even know where to be where to totally begin. But like Blade Runner, let's just overlook it. Let's start running it.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

I think Blade Runners, it has to be the most, I think, of all the uh directors' cuts, Blade Runner has to be the most famous or infamous, I think, in this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

I think that and Apocalypse Now, because Apocalypse Now both times got huge releases. Like the Redux got they played it in little theaters, but like they release it on, you know, it was a big DVD, and like, yeah, you're gonna do that. And that was when my friends and I we were in college, we're like, this is gonna be awesome. We put it on and we loved it. And then when I went back and rewatched it, I'm like, this slows everything down. And then a few years ago, he released his final cut, and I'm but that is one where I am adamantly I might plant flagged in apocalypse now theatrical version. That is the one I prefer. There, yes, that you get more, even in the final cut, you it's less of the French plantation stuff, and you get a little more Robert Duval, which I always love, but I will sacrifice more Robert Duval for just keeping the fucking pace going as well as it went in the theatrical cut. So I that's one where I'm like, all right, man, I get it. You had 40 scene, you had 40 minutes of deleted scenes, so you wanted to do this Redux, and you did it. And I don't think that is as good of an accomplishment. But then yeah, Blade Runner is, you know, there's a voiceover in the in the original cut that the studio made him do, and then you know, he takes that out, makes changes to it. So yeah, but yeah, Blade Runner and Apocalypse Now, I think are 1A, 1B for like when you type that into Google, those are the two responses that are gonna hit first.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Yep. And and and I agree with you, I uh with Apocalypse Now. I think I think at the end of the day, the theatrical cut is the best one. I mean, there is, I mean, there's some interesting stuff that happens in like like that whole entire weird scene with the girls in like the plane thing.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Yeah, that it again, and like you get a whole other Kilgore scene, a whole other Robert Duvall scene. I love that. But sometimes you just want to like pick and choose and go, ah no, do that element, but not all this extra stuff, you know. But that it's fascinating to be in their brains because it's like what makes them go back and like reopen all this stuff. I I don't know. Ridley Scott's another one. Blade Runner can't stop messing with it.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

I guess you I let you you have to land in two different camps when it comes to Blade Runner. You're either somebody that is for the voiceover, the narration, or you're not.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

But then the ending's different too, right? Oh, yeah, there's two, there's two different endings, too.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

There is there is the ending, which gives you just the the the happy ending, I suppose. Right. For flying over what looks like the beginning of the shining. And yeah, everything is hunky-dory. And then there's the then there's there's the cut where it introduces the idea that he might be a replicant this entire time.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Which I like I like that model that for me.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Absolutely, yeah. And there in the nerdum that I know is that, and I think he ultimately landed it with the the the definitive final cut from 2007 that we have, it has everything. Uh, I think you have to have the ending that gives you the idea that he might be a replicant. It's just far more interesting. And it that's the whole entire idea that Blade Runner 2049 plays with. Is, you know, so without that ending, if you if you if you were to show somebody a cut of Blade Runner that does not give you that ending, and they saw Blade Runner 2049, they wouldn't understand what this is.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

They'd be like, wait, that was that was kind of me because I didn't have like an the the ending that was in my head as we were approaching 2049 was the original. So I was a little like uh slightly confused, and then I went and watched the final cut, and I'm like, okay, I think I get a little more voice to go for here.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Yep, and but I am a fan of the voiceover. I I I like it, and I also like it because I think I know the backs. Do you know the backstory? I'm sure you do.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

Yeah, that he like didn't want to do it, Ford didn't want to do it, and he's like nobody wanted to, yeah. Well he was it was a studio thing, yeah. He was drunk, yeah, yeah. Go for it, Harrison. Uh see, and now talking to you right now, that to watch that cut is not available on the 4K. So I have not seen that cut. I mean, we're talking over 20 years, easy over 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Yep, and and and so it's you you really have to go back to that old that four-disc DVD that gives you the original cut, then there's the theatrical cut, and then there is the European international cut. And that actually was my favorite one for a while because they're they're basically in that one, they give you a little bit more violence, like just a little bit more into that, which I actually do. Well, I don't I I can't recall exactly what it was, but I remember when I was younger and I did all this research, I remember being able to pick out where they did that, and I go, it does actually add it matters, like they're adding that extra little bit of violence, is actually better.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

And then you get the 1992 cut, yes, and then you get the 2007 cut, which uh if if my research holds the 1992 cut was the radically kind of different cut, and then the 2007 is just modernizing that cut with like some you know updated effects, updated sounds, and stuff. So that's yes, so that's like in our lifetime, all these changes because I remember all this stuff happening like in real time, and then oh, another another DVD or another, whatever, another version.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

The 92 cut was the you know, and we're talking almost 10 years after the original. I mean, what yeah, 10 years, exactly. Yeah, that is the first one that introduces the new idea of the replicant. So it's like, you know, for all these cuts that were going on within 10 years, none of them actually introduce the whole brand new ending idea. And that is, I think, the most sort of egregious sort, not egregious, that's the wrong word. It's the biggest thing because it completely changes your relationship to the movie. Completely. So that is a worthwhile discussion to have for any director's cut, where if you're introducing a whole new idea to your movie that wasn't there, or you're taking it away. I don't think anyone's ever taken away an idea quite like that.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

That, oh, well, maybe we'll find that as we go, but kind of I'm not ending the discussion on Blade Runner, but the way you set it up set it up perfectly for the abyss. Because the first time I saw that, I always felt that that ending was a bit abrupt. And and again, I I'm I want to be somewhat cognizant of spoilers, but I think people understand that, like, you know, we're talking about directors' cuts here, it's might might happen here and there, but we have to spoil it. Yeah, like Ed Harris is like there, and then it's a quick conversation, then like, oh, we're all good. Then you go watch a director's cut, it's like he hacked out like 25 really important minutes, not quite 25, but a lot.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

But a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Completely recontextualize the movie, and it's like this giant warning against these aliens of like, come correct, like, chill the fuck out. What whatever you want to read onto it. And I I get why the studio wanted to cut it, I do, but man, I I just think the ending helps it so much and it makes it breathe a little more. And then, yeah, I mean, he turns that into like a proper like nukes could be a problem movie with for the director's cut, adds you know, 35-40 minutes to it. But I just I think it's a much completer experience. But I that is one where it just hit me like a bucket of water seeing that director's cut for the first time and going, Whoa, this is wild.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Oh, yeah. It it and you know, and that is the cool experience that you had because with with a difference like that, that it completely changes your whole entire relationship to the movie because it is that vastly different. We're talking about the original ending, which basically just kind of ends with just Ed Harris and um what's her name? Um Mary Mastriano. Yes, yes, yes. With just their little thing wrapping up, you know, right? It it does not give you this global worldview, yeah, world where in the and that's why I think the theatral the director's cut, it this is a good example of a director's cut that I do think is like definitively better, is because you still get those two in the theat in the director's cut, you still get how they're but because you've got this bigger thing, it's just so much more for your imagination to chew on that I think that the movie does a really good job of already exploring, you know, like because basically the the theatrical cut of the abyss, if you're supposed to go go by the original ending, is this just a romance?

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Or is this actually uh yeah, it's like what what so this was all just to like bring you closer to her? Like, yeah, there's no global impact at all, and that is and that's the point of aliens, is that there is exactly it's like yeah, like they could uh destroy us if we don't, you know, start coming correct, and how that is distilled down to this one kind of couple is the beauty of it. So that to me is that's one of my whenever whenever anyone asks me this question, that's usually where my brain goes to first, as uh honestly as the best example to where I'm the best one. They they didn't reorder anything, they didn't like move stuff around, they just put stuff back in that are all I again. I see studio hacking involved, but like he maintained the movie. I still like the original cut, but I'm always gonna recommend directors cut. And I guess that was was that last year or two years ago that they put it in theaters. I saw it, it looked amazing. Oh wow, I would have loved it. Oh whoa! Really? Oh, yeah, it was it was like a week thing. I remember it was the same week that um Godzilla minus one came out because I did I did a double feature and went to that right after. Oh, it was awesome! Yeah, it was just a you know, week-long IMAX thing. I love when they do that, and that's another thing. The three movies we've gone into so far Apocalypse Now, Blade Runner, and the Abyss. We like those theatrical cuts. We started liking those theatrical cuts, so that helps. The next huge one that I have listed is Alexander, directed by Oliver Stone, which just like the theatrical cut is not that good of a movie, it's very long, very slow. I was extremely underwhelmed by it in 2004. And then he starts talking like, I'm gonna do a director's cut, gonna do one, gonna do one. And I remember seeing that uh however long ago and being like, You I don't know if a director's cut can make like a mediocre movie good or better. And I I just I don't really know if he got there with it, but I do want to say I bought the 4K because why not? There's like some some worthy stuff in it, it's just not like this is not a an action movie like the Odyssey. It's much, much longer and spaced out, and he wants to know about like Alexander the Great and his family and history. But when you watch that theatrical cut, it's all in chronological order, and it really doesn't work. So, at least for the one on 4K, he got to put it in his order, which is like you see the present, then you flash back to the past to see what caused that. So it's more of like the editing is more effect, cause, effect, cause, as opposed to the other way. So I found it a worthwhile experiment, but that is a an interesting one to be like, dude, you're not you're you're not making like a D plus movie in A with these cuts. So just and you tried like four times, just let it go, man. Just let it go.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Yeah, I mean, I don't think anyone was ever going to accuse that movie of being savable in any sort of way.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

And that's another thing that I'm fascinated with is like, and he's promising us like, no, it's so much better, like, wait till you see it, and then it's also released to like a tepid response, and that's well, it's because no one's asking for it. Like, that's what I mean. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. His uh the next one in the top five I have here is basically the exact opposite of what I just said, where you have a movie come out, Kingdom of Heaven by Ridley Scott 2005. Not a good movie. Like, I went to see it in the theater. I my college roommate was really into that type of movie, we didn't like it, and then we hear, you know, on Blu-ray, I'm gonna release, I'm putting 45 minutes back into it, and it completely changes the movie. And I'm going, I've I've been through this so many times. He's right, he's not lying. Ridley Scott is right. This completely changes Kingdom of Heaven and makes it a much, much better, fuller movie. So that's another one where I'm like, I didn't ask for this, and I I bought that Blu-ray and quite enjoy that film. It doesn't make like Orlando Bloom's performance necessarily better, but all the additions are really worthy. And you're going, man, I I get why the studio wouldn't let you release a four-hour movie. So that's another thing. Like, did you think Ridley Scott you're gonna be able to release a four hour Kingdom of Heaven? But I don't know. So you've seen that one too. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Well, the funny thing about that one is is that I remember so I never saw the original. I've only seen the director's cut, but I remember when I saw it, it was because the director's cut. Just come out. There was a bunch of people I was living with, and they were like, So we're gonna watch it. And I remember knowing distinctively how bad everyone said that that movie was, and then I heard that there were 45 extra minutes, and I was like, wait, we're gonna watch a movie that we all know is bad, and we're gonna watch 45 more minutes of it. This sounds awful. And they're like, it's a director's cut. And I was like, Well, all right. I mean, I guess this is what we're doing with our day. And um, and I I just remember thinking the entire time, I I kept asking myself out loud, why did people not like this? Like, it wasn't like the it's not the greatest thing ever made or anything, no, but but but it's certainly like the the director's cut I was watching was not a bad experience. I was like, what the hell must have happened in the original cut to make this so despised? So I've still never seen the original, but yeah, that's it's just boring.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

That's and and it's it's choppy because you see, like, like that's uh Edward Norton behind that mask there. Yeah. And he never took the mask off. He's barely in the theatrical. That is a main character, it's a main yes, director's cut, and you the the everything his whole conflict is now a part of it, so it just makes it much more about the world, and that's another thing. It's it goes with like what did the studio greenlight, Ridley Scott? Did they green light a script that was going to equal four hours and they knew that going in, or did they green light a script that was like 245 and you just started going crazy, and then they the studio went, no buddy, like we're not giving you the extra whatever we'll negotiate and give you a three-hour movie. I I don't know. I we'll stick with Ridley though. Well, we'll start with Alien. That's one here's another camp where I can't, I I don't really know the differences. I I can't really spot the difference in alien between theatrical and directors. I think there's like five minutes added, but with that one, I don't really have a strong opinion about. I'm like give or take. So okay, we'll jump from Ridley to aliens now. That's one that people have a huge opinion about, and I absolutely see the differences of oh yeah, there's big ones. Adding in the machine stuff, you like the machine guns, all that. But that's another one where I think I go theatrical. I don't know though. How do you feel about alien aliens? It's tough.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Well, the the the like this is one I would Frankenstein perfect, yeah. Yep, yeah, like I I do think there is a lot of merit to the idea that you know that basically Ripley has been asleep for so long in that cryo chamber thing that her whole entire daughter's life has come and gone. Yeah. And so that idea that Newt is tied, and it's and that's why it it works without it, because in the theatrical, it's already such a maternal bond and instinct.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

So, yeah. So, what we mean is like in the theatrical cut of aliens, you don't know that Sigourney Weaver like has ever had a daughter because that's not mentioned in alien. But in the the director's cut of aliens, they're bringing that in pretty quickly because she's having dreams, and so it's it's a it's a running thread.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

And it if I'm not mistaken, isn't it like the first thing she asks is like about her daughter? Yeah, like very yes, yes, and then they basically tell her that she's dead.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

It's yeah, she's dead. So then she's yeah, so then Newt makes much more of like, I guess, organic sense of literally taking up the daughter role. But I don't, I don't really, yeah, I don't necessarily know if you need that.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

I got it from the theatrical you you don't need it, but it does because there is just a little bit more of weight to to Ripley, I suppose. That's true.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

It does, it doesn't hurt it.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

It doesn't hurt, it doesn't, yeah. It's nothing that takes away from it, but yeah, you don't need it. But I I remember it's well, it's just it's just an interesting concept to just think, wow, I've outlived my child, and now I'm like still young. It's an interstellar type thing, too, you know. Yeah, right. But but yeah, no, yeah. The movie doesn't the movie doesn't lose anything from it. And there's other things about it that are good and bad about the director's cut. It's an interesting one because I think at the end of the day, you could just rely on the theatrical cut to be the one. Um, but there are some interesting things.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Yeah, there are, and a lot of them are like that. I agree with the Frankenstein of that. I think that would work well. Um, all right, back to Ridley real quick. I know you haven't seen The Counselor, one of my favorite Ridley Scott movies, that director's cut. I know. I already love I already love the theatrical cut, but the director's cut just like adds a little more, doubles down. It's such a weird, singular flick. I love that. But Ridley does this all the time. I mean, he did it. Gladiator is not a Ridley Scott movie I'm obsessed with, like most other people are. Yeah, that's another one where I don't really notice the differences. Um, Napoleon, which I don't think you saw, he put about an hour into a lot. So I'm I'm like, all right, I'll put this on. He put it up for free on Apple. And that's he really just built out the world between Napoleon and his wife, played by Vanessa Kirby. And there, I didn't, I don't think there were two like more battle sequences or anything. It's just a lot more kind of with what he did with Kingdom of Heaven, but not as effective to me. Yeah, so you can see like they keep trying this stuff, and you're going, you know, uh okay, okay. And then so yeah, Ridley's one who does it a lot, Big Jim does it a lot. I I do like that for Terminator 2, he never made that like his official version because I a Frankenstein one, I'm not against having the Michael Bean scene, and don't need all the explanation of like how he were remember when we watch it and Ali had never seen it, and she was watching scenes with us, and we're like, pretend like you don't know that that you're not supposed to know that that's not in a theatrical, and she's like, Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

You know, you know, and James Cameron's an interesting one because you know, based off of just two different ideas that he's had for both Terminator 2 and Titanic, two ideas that could have and they and they shot both of these. I'm talking about the infamous, like crazy ending of alternate ending of Titanic. It's like, where are you going?

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Oh my god, that thing.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Like that, if they included the that ending to Titanic, that would have ruined the entire movie. It was so bad. It doesn't make that much money, it doesn't win. Oscar totally agree. It's so bad, but they are they also dodged a huge bullet with Terminator 2 because there is a deleted scene that they did include in the director's cut that ruins the entire point of the goddamn movie. Like, so you know, Terminator 2, for everyone who doesn't know it, you know, basically what you're watching is a bond form between a uh human uh teenager and a robot. That's the whole sentimental idea that Cameron is banking on. It's all about this, and it works so well. But Big Jim took it upon himself to it to to the point of like writing and including a scene that he includes in this director's cut of midway through the movie when they're kind of like uh you know recovering and they're like treating wounds and everything. There's this like computer component to the Terminator that if you switch on, he becomes more emotional, right? So stupid, and it's so stupid because then we don't get any of this dynamic of where a human or a robot could be more human because well, no, you've told it to.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

It oh man, that's a it's a huge miss of a scene. It's a a huge, like it would ruin everything if you included that. So thankfully, you know, that is not what we get in the theatrical. And yes, I would not be upset at all if they included the Michael Bean scene. I bet you that was probably the hardest decision to cut. Yeah. Um, because it it does work, it works for everything Sarah kind of needs it, Sarah Connor to to to uh, and you also get some bean in there, and you know, in 1991, no one was gonna be upset about getting more Michael Bean in their movie.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Know what I'm talking about. Oh, I know what you're talking about. So that's one aspect of it. Like we talked about, that is um, you know, you can choose to watch the director's cut if you have it on 4K or Blu-ray, but you can also watch the theatrical when they re-released it this year. It it's technically the theatrical cut in terms of scenes, but he's done little adjustments like the AI on the faces. So, how do you feel about that? I'm not a fan of that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

I don't like it either.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

They they I mean it sort of kind of got introduced with uh the um the new Star Wars uh and I have that as a section too for us to call like basically directors being fussy because I don't even know how I don't I genuinely don't know if it is possible to go find a version of Star Wars that people saw in 1977. I don't even know if it is. There there is, but it's very difficult. Uh okay, so that's like yeah, that's weird. Like, I think that's one where you make like a huge release for like Star Wars on 4K and get put. I don't give a shit, put six cuts on there, but yeah, the Star Wars ones are definitely ones that I have in the fussy column of like I don't really know many fans who are a fan of that shit at all.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Well, there's some benefits, like I remember because like being such a huge fan of the original, the original four, five, and six, be very clear. As a kid, very big fan, and me and my my friend Joe, we went on opening night to see all the new re-releases for four, five, and six, 997. And there were some good benefits, if like but little things, like yeah, they made the planets look better from space, you know, like they CGI'd them, but they didn't look too CGI'd. You know, the the the lightsabers looked better, like the lasers shooting from the ships looked better, like just some of the things that kind of just made it look like toys being flown around, they just made made those pop a little bit more by adding some more in the background. I don't mind those. Those are okay, especially I think in a movie like that. But you know what? Now you're fucking me up because you know what I just fucking realized that they did. What this is a complete departure into TV, but on Paramount, all the reruns from the old Star Trek episode, Star Trek, so segueing into Star Trek right now, they CGI'd all the planets and all the space stuff and like the enterprise. So, like a big part of the show was like when they would come back from commercial, they would cut to the enterprise circling around a planet as just, you know, just there'd be like Kirk on the voiceover, like like being like, and we're in it now, more trouble has happened, you know, things like that. But it was all you'd always see the enterprise circling around a planet, and it looked like how it would look in the 1960s, and they've completely dazzled it all up now.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

And I think that's stupid. Me too. I'm not a fan of it because like part of this stuff exists in a time and place, like that's what the technology allowed. That's what it was. Yeah, I mean, yeah, technology is always gonna get better. So, what are you gonna do? Update this like every year. I just don't know when it ends. Like, what is the stopping point? Like, ET is another one I have here because they re-released it for uh the 20th anniversary, which was just coincidentally right after 9-11. And and they take you know, before they go up in the air, Spielberg uh replaced their guns with like walkie-talkies, but then you also mess with the editing. Because if you go back and watch both versions that the like triple cut in to ET and Elliot, like there's some they leave out a shot of the cops. So I I'm like, when and then thankfully Spielberg put that back, but I'm like, why uh why do you even do this to begin with? At what point does it end? When do we stop tinkering with effects? And when do you go, like, I don't know, take out a cancelled word from something? Like, at what point does that that's what makes me? I mean, we have some directors like think a taxi driver, a word that Scorsese uses, or uh Tarantino and Pulp Fiction, though I doubt he minds too much. Like, at what point are we going and like scrubbing that out? I I just I don't I I don't it this is what makes it such a fun episode because at some point I'm like, cool, I'm glad you were able to go back and do that. But the making stuff like the technology, making it fit into the 2026 standard, like when Arnold Schwarzenegger flies off that bike into the LA River to get John Connor, I like when he lands and it was very clearly a stunt man, it just looks so 90s to me. And now I saw it in a movie theater. It is Arnold Schwarzenegger's artificial intelligence face that does not move, it just looks like a still image. And I'm like, uh, I I don't know. So the Star Wars one, because I've never been like I do like four, five, and six, but I've never been the craziest fan. But that those get brought up a lot of like, what are you doing, Lucas? Like, why did you do this?

SPEAKER_01 35:37

Well, it's so funny because I'm just gonna be a complete hypocrite talking about the uh how I don't know. Well, that's what happened about the Star Trek where I'm upset about it, but I didn't care about Star Wars redoing it, but there were things that become an entire joke in the Star Wars universe because, like, you know, there's this scene where Han solo is with this alien named Greedo, and in the original, um, and now I even forget how it goes because there's this whole entire thing of Greedo shooting first, like they had like a under the table thing. It became a joke in all the Kevin Smith movies, right? Where it was just like still a big thing. It's still a big thing. Like, I haven't heard something so stupid as the idea of Greedo shooting first, and um, so that would so now we're getting so fussy to where we're not just enhancing some of the background or like you know, the lightsabers or things like that. Now we're actually kind of changing like actions that the characters are taking. Right. This is where, as much as a problem that I might have with Star Trek doing that, I like we can't start doing that because now we're just changing the way it goes.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Well, that's what, yeah, like at what point, when does it end? Yeah, where does the buck stop? Because you know, suddenly I'm gonna recommend Miller's Crossing to someone and they're gonna watch it and not and I'm gonna go, Jesus, Tom, and they're not gonna get the jump because they cut it out.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

I don't know why. It does it does scare me when it does come into terms of um language, because I mean, if we're talking, we're gonna go and we're gonna scrub all that, then forget like any movie in the 70s. There's a lot of things. Well, that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Like what kind of we're contradicting ourselves, we're going all over it saying we like it for this. It kind of comes down to a movie-by-movie basis, I think. Like, do the edits, do the cuts, whatever they are, the additions, were they worth it? And so we're talking about that fussiness in terms of effects. Some other times, I wouldn't call this fussy, but directors like to have a little fun. Like Coppola did this for Godfather 1 and 2, put them in chronological order and put that on HBO. I thought that was cool. I didn't think it worked. I would never recommend like do whatever you can to find that cut. But it was as someone who had seen both movies a lot, it's kind of cool to start the Godfather experience with like you know, little veto in Italy, and then you kind of go all the way up, and then you know, Godfather 2 is just pretty much goes in order, except those uh flashbacks.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

So well, it's a very cool idea, and it's and I think it's better for a director to kind of offer up, like, hey, here is a fun take on this. But if he was to come out and be like, I'm definitively this is the only way, yeah, because because part of the pleasure of Godfather 2 is those flashbacks because you know who it is from the begin from the first one, right? And you're you know, you're getting like that that idea, so it it just it enhances everything. Whereas if you do all see that all at once, as cool of an exercise as that is, but that's the difference. Cor Coppola never came out and said that.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

He never said, like, this is how I want to insist you to watch The Godfather, which he did with The Godfather 3, and he even retitled it The Death of Michael Cordillon. Yeah, and I I have it, I have both versions, and this is one where he drastically messes with the structure. There's no like, as far as I can tell, no additions. I don't think he's adding in deleted scenes. I think the runtime is about the same, but he's making the structure flow more like the first one, like starting with the big party celebration. I really liked that the tone and the structure, but it goes back to the final, like the final shot of the Godfather III theatrical to me is awesome, and he just cuts that out of the death of Michael Corleone. And I'm like, Okay, I mean, this isn't a spoiler.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

You got him falling off the chair?

SPEAKER_00 39:28

That's the last shot of the Godfather III. He just cuts away at the death of Michael Corleot before you see him fall, so he's more like sitting there in contemplation before he dies. And I'm like, Okay, I uh okay, I I guess, but I like seeing him just collapse and he just collapses over and it's that it's definitive that he's dead, or at least it produces that idea.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

Whereas if you just carry on him looking off, you're sort of like, oh, that's but he titles it the death of Michael Corleone, but then doesn't show the actual death.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

So you're going, okay, Francis, okay. He's working on Megalopolis right now. He says he's got a new cut, he's got a weirder, bigger cut. And me, Mr. Talking a Big Game on that pod, I said I probably won't ever watch it again. Went to London, saw it sitting right there in 4K, and I'm like, Yeah, I will buy that. Thank you very much. Copla does a commentary for it, and I'm like, you know, that's his movie totally. So here's what I'm saying: like, no one gave him any rules for that cut. The version you and I saw in the theater, no one gave him rules. So, like, okay, fine. Now you're gonna have a different cut. Like, uh, okay, the first cut was the director's cut, so now you just want the fussy director's cut.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

See, this makes me think that he's cutting it because he did it the way he wanted to do it, and that it receives so much backlash that maybe like now he's sort of like, all right, I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna redo things. Even he is being fussy, but I mean essentially he's going back. Uh it's it's the it's the complete inverse of a director's cut. Like, he's like, I'm gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

Maybe he'll make it weirder. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

I mean, we can only hope if listen, I I don't want to go back and watch Megalopolis Bona to to to make like listen, that scene alone is my favorite scene of the whole movie. But you you you you cannot polish megalopolis to make it better. So the only direction you can go, which is the direction that I would champion, is you go weirder.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Oh my god. Uh that that movie's insane. It's what what an artifact. But then that that right there is an example of like go back to the club. Let's jump over to Mr. Michael Mann here, who I have a lot of strong opinions about in this very this topic. Already talked about Manhunter. The Last of the Mohicans was a movie I'd seen a bunch, and that's I know people where that's their favorite movie of all time, and they don't like the director's cut. And like in COVID, I went, There's a director's cut, so we were doing something. I don't know, we were doing some damn pod. It wasn't Miami Vice, it was something where we were talking about this, yeah. And I rewatched the director's cut, it might have been scores, yeah. And because the score is beautiful, and I I liked it more, but some people don't. But that again is another one where I do not have enough institutional knowledge of the theatrical cut to differentiate. I I like I don't know. And then is that a problem? Because you know, well, we well, I I just have that one vision in my head.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

Uh in terms of what you're talking about, like, can you notice anything? Like, uh, I I was always a fan of uh the Ryan Gosselin classic from last year of the Fall Guy.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

And and uh was that last year or two years ago?

SPEAKER_01 42:40

It was like two years ago, yeah. Had a very fun time in the theater with that movie, but then it comes out in Peacock and it says the director's cut. And I was like, well, here's an example like, well, who was asking for a director's cut of the fall guy? And um, but you know, piqued my interest. Sure. And it said it's like 20 extra minutes. Damn, like a significant runtime.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

That's a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

It's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

I don't couldn't tell you a single difference. But then did you like the director's cut? Like it didn't feel fat to you at all? Because if you can't tell the difference, but you like it, it's like, okay, I mean, I like it.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

I don't know. That was the thing was that I couldn't tell you a single difference, but I had an absolute pleasure of a time watching the director's cut. Um, so I've only seen the movie twice, once was in the theaters, and then once was this Peacock director's cut. And I did remember thinking that I enjoyed my time more the second viewing. So maybe that had something to do with it, but I couldn't tell you a single difference with 20 extra minutes.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

Yeah, that's yeah, and that's significant. Well, here's one I can tell a few differences on. Stick it with Michael Mann, one of my um a very inspiring movie for me, kind of changed my life. Ali. His biopic about Muhammad Ali. This sucks to admit. So I have owned Ali on DVD, the theatrical cut. When he released his director's cut, this is a a youth mistake. I just, you know, donated that DVD and I took in the director's cut as the one. Then on Blu-ray, the only version he has on Blu-ray is called the commemorative, commemorative cut, which he cut after Ali died. So I bought that. So I have that on Blu-ray and the director's cut on DVD. When I watch Ali, I watch the theatrical cut on Netflix. Fuck my life. That's and I watch the opening 10 minutes of this movie a lot because it's really inspiring. I box every morning, so I usually have that on. Like it can get not usually, I mean, often it pumps me up. But it's like if I want to see the theatrical version of Ali, I cannot do it on one of the two versions I own of it because the director's cut is fine. He adds one more fight. I'm a fan of that, but he's really building out the that's a big that's a big thing. Yeah, he's but he's building out the political world a lot, which doesn't have like the stuff surrounding Ali. And I'm like, I don't know if I really need that. The commemorative edition is just a bastardization, it is a fucking awful thing where he took out a lot of the fighting and just focused on like Ali's political impact. And I'm like, what the fuck is this? I hated it. I was so angry that I'm like, this is the only version of the movie I can get on Blu-ray. Still no 4K for Ollie, so I don't need all the extra versions, and now I can't, I would have to go buy like the ancient DVD to watch the version I want, or I watch it on Netflix. It just sucks as a physical media lover.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

Man, and so but the Netflix one that they have on there, like because I see that on there right now.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

That's theatrical. That's the good old-fashioned theatrical, and that is that would be the preferred cut I have. So that's one right there. Like, if we were gonna do Ali as a deep dive on the pod, I'd honestly have to say to you, We're we have to. I'm gonna break down the Netflix like cut because I I can't do the director's cut. We'll get too kind of off course with stuff, and that's I mean, you could say that for Miami Vice, too. Like, there was well, yeah. Again, there's not like it's just the opening. The opening is the big huge change, but that is everything because the theatrical cut, I can't even tell you in the theater, like people weren't even in their seats yet. You get like the production credit, and then it's bomb bum bum bum, and you are in and you are going, and it feels like we're in the middle of a scene because we are, as we know, when we watch the director's cut, and it starts with like it's cool, you know, the GoFast boats, I get it, but then they're setting up everything, and then we have like this five-minute setup into the club, and I go, Man, you had a lot of balls to start the movie that way in the club, you should have done that. So now I'm this new cut, the director's final cut. How will it start? That is what that's what we're the biggest discussing. We're all like, How and if he is smart, he'll go back to the theatrical cut.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

So I'll never forget. Like, when I when I told you I was flying back from uh from Italy, yeah, and I told you about the the the movies I watched on the plane, and uh, and I was like Miami Vice, and I had never seen Miami Vice at that point. And I was telling you how much I liked it, and you were like, All right, I'm glad you liked it, but I gotta know, like, what did you see? Like, how did that movie start? And I go, What do you mean? How did it start? Well, of course I knew how it was because I remembered the the those Lincoln Park and and Jay-Z notes.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

Yeah, you literally said that to me. You were like, What do you mean? How did it start? And I go, How did the movie you watch start? And you're like, the Lincoln Park in the club. And I went, Good, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:26

And and I and I was so in. I was like, Oh, let's go, we're in it. And then I oh my god. So to even fathom when you started to tell me that there's actually a cut that that's not there, and I go, and then I watched it, and I go, This is stupid.

SPEAKER_00 47:42

It is, and I stupid there are some more differences. I think the director's cut has more of the relationship with Colin Farrell. Like, I don't think we really need that, so that's one where yeah, I'll go with theatrical for sure.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

Theatrical, yep, absolutely, absolutely. There's a oh, I got one that's a definite theatrical. Uh oh, which is Donnie Darko.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Oh, yes. Oh my god, that was one that got a huge, like that's a really good one to bring up because for a lot of people of our generation, that was one that was made a really big deal because you have the sleeper movie that no one saw in the theaters. I don't even remember being in the theaters, becomes a sensation on DVD, and then we start hearing, like, yeah, they're gonna release like a director's cut. And that that is a huge misfire to me. Like a huge big misfire. I I kind of forget I remember well, one they changed the song in the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

Yes, that's right. It's a different song, and it's not a good song. And then there were just some editing things that they did that were like what what kind of just made Donnie Darko so interesting was the weirdness. And I think this I think it was like the special edition that they called it. It just it it just it just dumbed it all down and made it kind of just lame, and all the fun, interesting, unique things about it were just not no longer there.

SPEAKER_00 49:03

I mean, people loved that first cut, so just yeah, that's one where I'm like, just leave it alone. They did, yeah, they messed with the ending in a way that I didn't think was it was like an over-explanation. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 49:13

And that director did something else too, where he made a movie that, like, uh called the Southland Tales. I still have never seen it, heard a lot about it. And and no one has, and and everyone's heard a lot about it. Like, it's got it's got The Rock, it's got Sarah Michelle Geller, and it's got Stifler. Yep, yep, sure it does. And and it came out, and everyone apparently it was just horrible. Then he releases a director's cut, if I'm not mistaken, yeah, and then no one hears about that either. So, like, here's a movie that came out that one no one ever even heard because he didn't give him a chance to see whatever the original was, and then he's like, All right, I'm gonna fix it, come out with a director's cut, and then be like, All right, I'm not gonna show anyone this either.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

Yes, and that's again like who was asking for this, or how the same thing I have for Ali as well. One I skipped over with Michael Man was Black Hat, which we talked about a lot, but that is actually wild how that's just like an editing timeline thing where I don't really think it would take that long, where he is moving a central sequence, it works so much better. But then still, like Chris Hemsworth is the lead to that movie. There ain't no cut, I feel, that can make that performance good. He's just not good in it, and he's trying maybe it would be good if they let him be Australian. He's trying to do like the tough guy De Niro from Heat thing, and I'm like, it it ain't working. Like, this guy doesn't have to be a New Yorker from New Jersey, just make it who gives a shit, make him Australian. But I so but that is one where I'm like, good, you needed to do that because black hat was a huge bomb, and I think readjusting some things made it better, but that's uh that's you can only see that if you buy like the arrows special edition. So that's a lot of these that we're talking about can be harder to see. Some are much more accessible. The only way we're gonna switch to another one, another big guy, Oliver Stone loves to do it. JFK, one of my favorite movies ever. It's a long movie when he releases it on 4K, he decides to do the director's cut, adds 20 minutes. I'm here for it. He just adds a bunch of weird background political shit. Like in not 20 minutes one scene, he's just kind of adding peppering stuff in throughout. So I'm a big yeah, I'm a huge fan of that. He did the same thing with Nixon, which not a lot of people people don't really talk about Nixon with Anthony Hopkins. I love that too, but those are ones where I'm like, we got a big political thriller here. You want to add in 20 more minutes of context. I'm cool with it.

SPEAKER_01 51:35

Well, hey, you're already at four hours at that point. Literally, what's in there? 20 minutes. Well, JFK is not four. It's not oh, I thought you said I thought you said it was four.

SPEAKER_00 51:44

No, no, it can it it gets it's like JFK is like 320. It's no joke. Nixon's like 330, also no joke, but no, none nothing in the in the four range. But here's another one with Ali. Like, he any given Sunday. I love that movie. I love that movie so much. And a few years ago, I'm like, oh, there's a director's cut on Blu-ray. Okay, I'll buy that. It's just like the stuff he moved was so unnecessary, like reaction shots or slow motion reaction shots that I where my brain knows where they are in the movie, and I'm like, Well, what'd you do that for? Just totally some of this stuff feels like a cash grab that okay, instead of putting any given Sunday just on Blu-ray, let me like fuss with it for a little bit and we'll call it the director's cut and put it. My movie was fine, dude. Natural born killers, same thing. That's another one where I don't necessarily notice the differences, but Oliver Stone loves to put director's cut on his movies.

SPEAKER_01 52:38

I would hate that. Like, I like so far, that's the first time I've ever heard of little things like that. Like it's fine if you want to kind of like, even for silly reasons, like add or take out some things, but if you're just changing reaction shots, uh dude, there's a scene, uh one single reaction shot on any given Sunday, this is as film nerd as I can get.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

It's during the final game, they don't know if like a touchdown's been scored, and we cut to Pacino and guys on the sideline, it's in slow-mo doing the like the first reaction of like, Did he make it? Did he make it? And in the theatrical cut, you see that, and then we cut to the ref and he announces if it's a touchdown or not. And this director's cut, he cuts that reaction shot like like 15 seconds earlier. And I'm going, Well, that used to be the last shot before we found out if it was a touchdown or not. Now you just like have and I think he does it twice. I think he just like used a duplicate shot and then used it again. And I'm I'm going, this just feels fussy and sloppy. This feels like you did not watch it again. So that's another one where I'm going, Great. Now I have it on Blu-ray. I don't even I don't think I have my DVD of it, and that's the only way I can watch it is a director's cut. Uh hate it. I hate it. But we're we're still we're sticking with directors. We're gonna get to round robin here too. There, there are a few I need to mention because I have no real like history of, but I've heard Leon the Professional is not a good director's cut because it makes it weird between the two of them, like it develops their intimacy a little bit more and makes it kind of creepy. And I've never gone back and watched that.

SPEAKER_01 54:19

Well, you know, it's so funny you mentioned that because I believe I have the DVD. I do think that it said the director's cut on there. Oh so maybe I only know the movie from the director's cut.

SPEAKER_00 54:37

So this is a great thing. This one I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_01 54:39

Yeah. You know, I've only seen that movie a few times and I was younger, so I so I can't really recall. But I do remember there being an idea of something being a little inappropriate, like it it goes there, but then they don't, it's not realized, surely. Right. Maybe that's my only relationship to it, or unless that is how it actually goes, but then the theatrical, the director's cut actually goes further into it, right?

SPEAKER_00 55:08

Like it was released as the professional, and then I think his director's cut kind of rebranded it as just Leon, so it's like Leon the Professional. I I don't know, but that's one that people have opinions about. But again, I've only seen that once or twice, and I do not believe I've seen that director's cut, but that's that's all I've heard. I have to mention this because people are, you know, movie podcasts for people who love movies, so I just gotta mention it. Every single person I know who likes Lord of the Rings prefers the extended versions. I have not and will not ever be watching these, but I just wanted to bring that up. That's it. I just wanted to bring up that they talk about four hours, you're getting into but fans who love those movies are like, yeah, it's extended all the way, all the way. And I'm like, hey, enjoy your life.

SPEAKER_01 55:54

You uh you just brought back uh a very specific memory of I know exactly what those extended box sets look like from uh my old college roommates because they had it and they were Lord of the Rings fans, and I was like, oh my god. And they all did talk about how the extended versions were better. Yes. That's that that that is that is unanimous.

SPEAKER_00 56:14

All right, well then, you know, that's one one for them. Speaking of like when you're saying the professional, maybe I've just seen this one cut. There are also directors' cuts that are infamous, but we are of the age that we've only seen one version of them. I have three The Wild Bunch, which apparently went through a lot of recutting, Heaven's Gate, which went through a ton of recutting, and Once Upon a Time in America, which is like one of the most infamous versions of this that like Roger Ebert sees it at Khan. It's this masterpiece, four-star glowing review. And then he sees the theatrical cut, and I think gave it one star. And he's like, What they have done to this is like this just goes against cinema. This goes against movie making. I've never seen the three movies I just mentioned, I've never seen their theatrical cuts. I own all of them. I don't even know if you can buy the theatrical cuts, they're just available with their director's cuts, and that's good. I from what I hear, those are all good directors' cuts, but those are ones that had major studio involvement, so that's why they were not released the way that you know went over well.

SPEAKER_01 57:18

So you've never seen for once upon a time in America. Have you seen the four-hour one? That's the only one I've seen.

SPEAKER_00 57:26

That's the only one. That's the director's cut. Okay, the theatrical was like two hours, and I think they told it chronologically. So it sounds not dissimilar to what happened to Oliver Stone with Alexander that that was scripted as like you know, present and then flashback, present flashback, which is how Once Upon a Time in America is, and I don't I don't know, but that that is a legendary one that I yeah, I've only ever seen one version of it.

SPEAKER_01 57:49

All right, I know I need to see that movie.

SPEAKER_00 57:51

Yeah, it's good, it has some it has some challenging stuff in it. It's long, but it's good. I yeah, I know, yeah. Okay, well, then here's another one like a director having fun, kind of like Coppola putting Godfather One and Two in chronological order. Sometimes it seems to be a relatively new thing. Directors are putting their movies in black and white, and I am uh I'm kind of here for it. I'm a fan. I just bought Frank Derabont's The Mist on 4K, and then it comes with four discs. He has 4K of the color version and 4K of the black and white. Usually they just picked one. Uh, we love that movie in this household, so I put on the black and white.

SPEAKER_01 58:27

It's so good.

SPEAKER_00 58:28

Allie and I liked it way more. We uh like it's kinder to the creature effects, and Stephen King has this like old-timeyness to like the way they're talking, the way they're dressed, just the grocery store. It's not, you know, you're not like in a Wegmans, you're like in a small like neighborhood grocery store. Black and white worked well. There's um there's a movie called Hush on streaming that is it's good. It's like a deaf woman is being you know stalked by a guy who's like trying to break into her house. But I had no idea that there was a Shush cut of Hush that like kind of takes out a loud of the music and makes it black and white. I like that a lot better. I just rewatched Logan. I've never seen that black and white cut, and I found out there was one, and I'm like, oh, I'd watch that. Gamma del Toro's Nightmare Alley. I bought that criterion. I vastly prefer that black and white cut. I was gonna say nothing's gonna save that. Nothing. I know you weren't a fan. You weren't I was not, I did not like that movie, but I'm kind of here for that. I'm here for like give us a black and white version. Just I know the uh the Fury Road, a lot of people are fans of that, the black and chrome version. I'm sure that's cool, but I don't know. I I like that, especially with something like The Mist. It just focuses all of your attention because as we were watching it, Ali was like, give me a few examples of how you think black and white helps. So I pause and I'm like, all right, that's a Pepsi can, like right next to him. In black and white, that that's just the gray and black kind of blending in. My eye and color may be drawn to that very familiar blue of that Pepsi can, but it's not in black and white. I'm just focusing on the actors, like so it your eye just goes to different, I don't know, different things. It's a cool experiment. I think it works well for scary movies too.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:10

Oh, yeah, absolutely. There's uh there's a fan edit of The Crow where uh it's it's a black and white version of the crow, but then the only thing that are that is in color are the uh flashback scenes to when they're alive and in love. Okay. So so basically the whole entire movie from him being dead is in black and white, and whenever he's alive is in color. And it's just a fan edit, so there's nothing official, but it's floating out there, and it's like a completely like available.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:40

Um fan edits are interesting in this regard because yeah, they've taken you know, it's not hard to like upload it and people upload them to Google Drive, and you that's how this is how I watched um Oppenheimer cut in chronological order, Dunkirk cut in chronological order. Nolan would never do that. He did it with Memento, and it's like that's that's cool, but he would never do that with something like Oppenheimer. And I saw what like the fan was doing, and I'm like, all right, I certainly I don't like it more, but I think this is a really interesting experiment to put it in chronological order. It's just it's it's fun, so yeah. Sometimes fan I mean, I talked about in my Halloween breakdown that Halloween six, how a fan edit basically like it was so influential that they I guess producers like kind of hack something together, and then that is available on the 4K, which is really crazy, and it's way better. It's just yeah, so we'll get to some round robin here of just listing off not going by director, but listing off some that okay. Speaking of Frankenstein, this is and I know ha ha, it's such a funny joke of this podcast. The masterpiece that is the exorcist. Love this film. What's that? Yeah, huh? Demonic possession, asshole. Yeah, so forever, I mean there's a theat, there's a theatrical cut, and then when we are kids, freaking releases, you know, the version you've never seen, and that is a lot of people our age, that's the version they saw, and there's a lot of cool stuff in it, like making showing the demon faces like in you know, like in the corner or something, like in the dark before she's fully possessed. But the ending doesn't, and you the one time you watched it, you said like the ending was kind of weird of just like the priest and the cop talking, and I'm like, it is, and that's not in the original. And that's one where I got married to the director's cut because it's kind of what I grew up with, and now I've gone back and gone. I'll take the theatrical, but I do really like the seeing like the demon skulls and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then that spider walk thing I always thought was just ridiculous and stupid, and that's only in the director's cut. I never liked that. She never leaves her room, it's stupid, it doesn't make any sense. She doesn't leave her room, and now she's like in the room, crawling down backwards, blood out of her mouth, and no one ever mentions it again. That always felt very hacky and like just something extra to put in for shock value. And of course, when the director's cut was released, that's what people were talking about. They were talking about the spiderwalk. And I'm like, it doesn't like thematically, it doesn't really make sense because she, yeah, she just never leaves the room, she's always on that bed.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:09

But anyway, so that's that's another Frankenstein one.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:12

But well, I think we gotta talk about. I mean, we we covered it extensively in our John Cassavetti's podcast, but the differences of the killing of a Chinese bookie are vast. Like that, that, that, that is a whole different. It's it's worth it's worth revisiting that conversation just for the sake of this pod, because you are having two different experiences with the movie with those cuts.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:36

I actually went back and listened to us talking about them because I'm like, what did we say we preferred? We both are seriously behind the director's cut, the shorter version of taking which takes out a lot of the rehearsing for his shows. And it just it and I and I brought this up that like the last hour or 50 minutes are almost identical. It's really the first you know hour or so that he's changing. And I think that director's cut is a a big improvement, and that's another one that you can maybe even on HBO, like right now, you can find both. So it's like which one do I do? And that I'm gonna I'm gonna recommend director's cut.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:14

Yeah, there's just so many things that that the director's cut does that just add more to what you bring to the movie, yeah, that the dirt that the theatrical takes away. Like, I remember we were even having that conversation because we're trying to figure out this, you know, Ben Gazara character, and my favorite moment of of him is we get that cut in the beginning of the movie where he's in his car in like in like a limo and he's just looking out the window. There's no one else in the car, and he just he's just he's like, I'm the best. You the director's cut allows you just to be like, There's just this guy walk driving around a limo about to pick up all these girls, and he just thinks he's the best. He just says it out loud. That's hilarious. That's that's that's the kind of guy that he is. But like the theatrical cut like adds like a bunch to that, where it actually takes the whole lot. It it and you're like, oh, that's that's why he says that. Like, I just remember that moment. I couldn't I couldn't remember the theatrical version well enough, but but little things like that are happening, and the theatrical cut just slows down so much of the movie. A lot. He needed to keep working on it, he needed to keep cutting fat. Yep, and and and the thing is, is like, you know, we're talking about John Cassavetes, it's sloppy. John Cassavetis has never made a not sloppy movie. So I think the theatrical cut is sort of like trying to not make it sloppy. And that is just a movie that is just better off being like the killing of a Chinese bookie is a sloppy movie that deserves and needs to be seen as in its sloppiness.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:55

And that's what you get with the director's cut.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:58

Yes, and just keep in mind. If you know people are listening to this and you which version to watch that the original was released in 1960, 1976, it did not do well, like no one went to it because it didn't. Then he makes opening night the next year, and off the success of opening night, which he did not touch, he went back and recut Chinese Bookie. And Ben Gazar was telling him, like, you need to that he wasn't the biggest fan of the theatrical. So I think that's yeah, I think it's wise that he did that. I mean, there's another famous one that no one, I guess, will ever see. Apparently, this is what Kubrick did with 2001, like he hacked out 18 minutes uh after premiere night, where he's like, Okay, it didn't work. That'd be I don't know. I've I've done some investigating, and I I honestly think in my research, what I can find is that he didn't cut out scenes, he just made like eight, he tightened 18 minutes worth. So, like, if you have 18 minutes worth more of like docking of doing all this, I could see how that could get tedious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it already is, and I I mean I love that film, but that the Chinese bookie one is really interesting because those are they're vastly different cuts, especially how it's like leading you into the movie, leading you into the story. Trying to find another one that's like vastly different to stay on theme. Because okay, well, I had always heard a lot about um an Orson Wells movie, The Touch of Evil. I I have seen the movie once, it's very it opens with this, you know, three-minute long unbroken shots, Charlton Heston, Janet Lee, and Orson Wells. So I'm like, okay, I've all I've only ever seen one version, theatrical cut, it's about 90 minutes, and I liked it well enough. And it's like it's always called this classic, and I'm like, okay. Then I find it's on 4K. And whenever a 4K is a little more expensive, I'm like, what's the deal here? It's like, yeah, it's got four versions, like the original. This so for this one, I'm like, all right, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna put on the original, 90 minutes. Did that not gonna let anyone tell me the differences. Then I put on Orson Wells, left like 60 pages of notes because the studio hacked it up, and then he left like a 60-page document. The great all-time amazing editor and sound mixer, Walter Murch, who edited Apocalypse Now, he's like an amazing editor. He takes these notes and goes, I'm gonna try to make the cut that we think Orson Wells would have wanted. I'm gonna enhance the sound in some areas. Holy Christ! When you watch this theatrical, every issue I had, sorry, every issue I had with the theatrical about well, huh? I don't get that. That's not explained. Perfectly realized in this. They don't call it a director's cut because Orson Wells was dead. It's like an assembly cut, such a much better movie. And then Charlton Heston and Janet Lee do a commentary for the new assembly cut, and it's so good. So that is like what a drastic difference. And like, you know, it the movie still achieved called status based on that 90-minute cut, but the bigger cut is so much better. So I was like, great, that was a great 4K purchase, and that's like film history that I own. It's very cool, and then of course, there's a million special features detailing, you know, the differences, the studio involvement, all that stuff. So that highly recommend that. That's a great purchase.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:12

That's actually very cool. I got I got one that's not on here that's completely ridiculous to even bring up. Hit me. So your favorite comedy of all time is Anchorman. We all know this. And yeah, party harha. But there is not bad.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:27

We watched it together.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:28

I chuckled, but there is on uh on the DVD, they've accumulated so many deleted scenes. I've heard of this. It's like an alternate cut or something. Well, it's yeah, because it follows the exact same story. It's just like they've just got so much material that they're like, well, what if we just sort of like put together the exact same thing, but just use these different scenes or like your bloopers to kind of like make it? And this is what I'll say about it. It's not as good as what they've what the actual Anchorman movie that we all know it is, but it is a million times better than Anchorman 2.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:07

Oh, okay. Well, yeah, that's fair. I mean, that is one I didn't like at all. I was like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:12

No, I don't it I I don't think anyone did. That movie kind of just fell flat. It it's known for some of its deleted scenes and bloopers more than the actual movies. So so that is yes, the deleted scenes that they've compiled to make a full-length feature from Anchorman 1 are all infinitely better than anything Anchorman 2 has to offer.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:31

Okay, cool. That's I mean, that's I like that. I and I remember talking with you about that, and I've never seen that. That's something that would interest me to go No, you wouldn't. Not in the Well, maybe I mean it's uh like a different cut of like all alternate scenes. Listen, but let's listen.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:46

That was all just for the mad movie buffs that appreciate good comedy, right? Not the person outside the screen next to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:53

Yeah, I could be so mean right now, but I'm gonna keep it going. One of my favorite comedies, the top 10 of all time, Bad Santa, directed by Terry Zwygoff. Uh, I fell in love with a theatrical cut. That is the cut that I love. It's it's just it's music to my ears. And then to come to find out that like that's a Weinstein cut, like Harvey Weinstein kind of got a hold of it and added opening narration that wasn't there, added this, added, hired um fucking Todd Phillips to shoot a bunch of insert scenes. Because when you watch the theatrical cut of Bad Santa, you're like, Oh, well, that's Brian Callan. Like, he's the you know, the guy who owns the wedding chapel in the hangover, and then that's Matthew, who can't remember his last name, but he's the doctor in the hangover. And then I'm like, oh, Todd Phillips directed all these scenes. So, like the scene, you know, get the fuck. I told you get out from behind my bar. Silly, like add-in scenes. That's just a movie I fell in love with. So when he releases a director's cut and I watch it and I go, Yeah, I I okay, I kind of I get it, like it's it's okay. And then there's this an unrated cut. So there are three cuts of Bad Santa. There's an unrated cut that is like really dumb and stupid and not so. That's another one where rarely to me does does this work well for comedies. Apau does this a lot, like knocked up was something like that's close to two hours, I think, in theater, maybe 210. He releases a director's cut. Do I still have that? Is that yeah, it's right there. Special edition, it's like two hours and 40 minutes or something. I'm like, what the fuck are we doing here? This is a studio comedy. Like, there's this material does not want two hours and 40 minutes or however long it is. So I was bummed by Bad Santa to find out that that the theatrical was not Terry Zwygoff's cut, and that that's the version I fell in love with. So that's the one I prefer. It's weird.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:38

Well, and it's interesting too, because for a number of reasons, is like um, yeah, knocked up. Um Judd Apital with funny people, yeah, the biggest criticism of that movie was that it was too long, and that was the one where he had final cut, and so we got the director's cut, and that was the issue that everyone had with it. And it's interesting to bring up the director's cuts because for anyone who might not be a have not been old enough to be alive, those early 2000s on DVDs, you saw director's cuts come up a lot on comedies. They were trying to yes, yes, it was a marketing gimmick, yeah. And mostly what you got was because most of these were on the raunchier side of movies, so you would just get extended nude scenes.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:25

Right. That's a lot what Red Wedding Crashers does. Yeah, Wedding Crashers. Way more boobs in the beginning, and I'm I'm like, okay, okay, guys, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:33

But one interesting movie to bring up when we go back to the Weinstein stuff is that disappearance of Eleanor Rigby movie. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:41

Tall talk about it because there's, I mean, there's it's not three cuts, but yeah, you will you you just re-watch this. So yeah, you go into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:48

So and you know, the thing is, is like it it's just such an interesting idea that's just not done. Where uh the director Ned Benson came up with two full-length feature movies called basically the disappearance of Eleanor Rigby, him and her. Obviously, one chronicles hers journey and one chronicles his. It's just you you I don't know. I just love that idea. And there's things about that that movie that don't really work for me. There's a lot of just sitting and talking, because that's kind of just what it is, but there's some really beautiful moments and like you know, romantic, and and Jessica Chastain just plays grief so fucking well. Yeah, and then Harvey Weinstein just decided just to cut the two together, and you just you just miss it. Like there's a there's a very big missing piece to what heart there is in both of those movies, it just gets completely trampled on. So you just kind of see like this very less than version of everything with the actual cut.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:50

Yeah, the this actually it's a really interesting case. I was I was really into this movie because I was like living in LA and I'm I'm going to go in 2014. Yeah, it's like the only it was only playing in basically New York and LA, but and I actually went to a screening where Jessica Chastain, who also produced it, did a QA after. So my screening was Oh wow, and that was the cool thing. Like you didn't necessarily know in New York and LA which screening you were gonna get. It was random if they were gonna show him or her first. And yeah, these are I don't know if they're two hours, him's a little shorter, but they're like about 140 years. Well about a couple, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hour 40 each, about just a couple, and you see uh the same scenes in both of them sometimes, and how the perspective is different, and it's a really cool experiment. And then yeah, I guess that premiered at TIFF and a small theatrical push, but barely barely anything because you know it's it's taking up a long time block in a movie theater, it's like a four-hour time block. And then yeah, Weinstein's like cut them both together and make it a two-hour movie. Okay, oh, I see it here. Him is 96 minutes, her is 105 minutes, so about 10 minutes longer, and then them is 123 minutes. So you're taking these two features, cutting them into a single, you know, movie. That's what Weinstein also tries to release, and it's just not that big of a hit because it's how it is good. Yeah, exactly. It's just so that's it's a very interesting one to talk about, and I'm glad yeah, I own those. He didn't, I guess he looks like he had another movie come out on Hulu, but that's it. Nothing else from him. Oh, Ned Vencer. Yeah. Very yeah, I I it's coming out. No, it did. Um it's called The Greatest Hits. It is on Hulu, it is 95 minutes long. It looks like young kids in, I don't know, maybe in love or doing something.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:46

Well, I I I just I just be curious just because like that was such a very creative idea during the time where even back in 2014, like you weren't getting away with that type of like I want to make two movies and release them, you know, like this. It's it's a very, very creative idea.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:05

Yeah, I like that a lot. Let me see. Other ones here.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:09

Okay, well, we have to talk about the Malik's.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:13

Yeah, we've talked about a few of these on the pod, so that was another one. I went back to our episode to listen because I'm I'm like, I don't know if I'm gonna have time to rewatch all of these. But yeah, with the new world and the tree of life on criterion, the new world, you can have three cuts. You have the first cut, like the the early cut, the theatrical, which is the cut I fell in love with, and then the director's cut, which we said on the I said on the Malik episode. Basically, my opinion about both of these new the new world and the tree of life. If you like those movies, the director's cut just slightly broadens the experience. It's not especially with the tree of life, you can tell the additions, but like he, you know, he makes chapters out of them. Some of the chapter titles are actually kind of funny and like ironic, which it it's just funny to think of Malik doing that. But I think they're they are better experiences of the material, noting that the original theatrical material of both are just perfect to me. I so I wouldn't have had notes, but I'm like, okay, it's a it's a richer experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:12

But I think I know what my answer is, but I'd be curious as to yours because it's a great way to put it. Like it's not, it's there, there it's just it's just a deepening of what we're already seeing. That being said, if you were to go and watch either one of these movies tonight, which one are you putting on? Are you putting on the theatrical or are you going to put on the the director's cut?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:32

Very good choice, very good question. I think for Tree of Life Director's Cut, because I only saw that once. I think for New World, I might, and I I had this issue researching this episode because I'm like, do I have time to go back and watch these? I probably do theatrical because that's what I fell in love with, but I I just need a little more time with the directors. I've only seen the directors cut twice of the new world, and I've seen the original, the theatrical, so many times. And there are differences, yeah. It it is the the ending's the exact same for every cut, but there are differences, but the original, the theatrical is flawless to me, so I don't have anything to add. So I guess probably I don't know, it's a good question. Right now, if I after we were done, I'd watch theatrical new world director's cut tree of life. That's a good yeah. Maybe I just need to watch the theatrical verse director's cut of a new world a few more, but that yeah. Oh, I have another like those I understand why you know he released the theatrical versions that make sense. He wanted to keep playing around. Here's one that I don't get because we're talking about four fucking minutes here. David Fincher's Zodiac. David Venture's Zodiac, the director's cut, is so much better, and it's like four minutes. The biggest thing is, you know, basically like two, it's not even two minutes, it's like a minute of darkness where all this time is passing, and he is doing that with you know news stories and all that stuff, and we're just hearing this time pass. Why they wouldn't let him include that, I don't know. But when we're just talking about four minutes, I I don't understand. Like it's David Fincher. Not only that, they just released it on 4K, it's the theatrical cut. Like, so you can't get a 4K of the director's cut. And I'm going, why? What if we're just talking about four minutes and we're not talking about like there's no added, there's no sex that's added, there's no like horrific violence. Why not give them the four minutes? So those I really don't understand. I really think I prefer the director's cut so much more of that movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:34

I mean, this is I mean, I'm I'm sure it's probably difficult, but I'm imagining at this point now when it comes to physical media, if you are putting together the effort to make a 4K, you should probably make it as much as jam-pack that with as much as you can. Like that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Like give both versions of it. Because if you're already making the 4K, what's four minutes extra gonna do? Include both.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:58

Well, it's my understanding that you can't actually on the same disc because the 4Ks take up so much information, hence why I have So double disc. Double disc, like good old Touch of Evil. What are we talking about here? Double disc, baby. Charge a bunch more money, people will pay it. Here's another one I got Close Encounters of the Third Kind that's got three fucking versions on it, and I'm like, okay, theatrical, which I don't really have much again, institutional knowledge, then the one he I guess because now we get it gets confusing because there's like a director's cut and a special edition. I think the special edition is the ending that no one likes and I don't like, and then the director's cut, he basically just takes out that new ending, puts in the old one. I'm like, okay, should have done that before, but that's another one where I basically for that I always watch the most recent cut because I know it has the proper ending, but you don't care. Not with that movie, yeah. I know, I know I'm just filling in your words for you. Another one from 1977. I knew it existed, had never seen it until this week. Bought the 4K. Martin Scorsese's New York, New York, adds like adds a shitload. Really? Oh my god, dude. I get it, but there's an entire musical number called Happy Endings. Oh my god. Ends the movie that they included from the excluded from the theatrical cut because it was just too big. And I'm like, so they put it back in. But basically, with this, if you like New York, New York like you and I do, you're just gonna love the director's cut. It's just more, it's more of the same. And he did a commentary for it. That's why that was another 4K that was expensive because it's both versions. He does a commentary for it, and I'm like, hey, I'm in. I I had a blast watching it. That movie is out of its fucking mind. I love it. It's it, I mean, it's genuinely one of the best like cocaine artifacts that we have because he just admitted everyone was zonked when they were making it, zonked out of their minds, and you can you can just tell the improv that it's going nowhere. Uh, it's just it's a great big mess of a movie, but I like it. Oh, and the 4K, whoa, I I never knew the movie looked that good. Wow, marvelous. Just the film stock, the grain. Oh, I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:14

I'd like to see that one.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:16

Oh, yeah. No, I tell I definitely think you should. I thought, yeah, I got a big, big kick out of it. You can next time you visit, we'll throw it on. Foreign movies do something interesting that should not be misconstrued as a director's cut per se, but you take somewhat something like Fanny and Alexander or Scenes from Marriage by Bergman. I mean, in Sweden, they just do things differently over there. So they were allowed to release the six-hour cut. And I think it was it was either three n for Fanny and Alexander, it's like, and then in the US, it's he edits it down to a gorgeous, brilliant three-hour movie. And that was one where I'm like, I don't know, guys, like the three-hour movie's perfect. What what two extra hours? Like, what are we talking about? That I mean, the the place that movie has in my heart that is like a Sunday morning movie to me. I put that thing on hit play, I never even have to touch the remote, it just goes, and that is wow. Every that's a brilliant one because like everything that is added back in that is included. That they call this the the television cut, is what the longer one is, is so worthy, but then he still made a brilliant Oscar-winning movie, three-hour movie out of it. So it's crazy, but go for the long one, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:28

Go for the long one. I just actually recommended, I think I was telling you that. Um uh uh a couple guys that I do this like board game play testing with nerd alert. What I I've gotten this one guy completely into Igmar Bergman. Is he like and and and I mean you I feel like you have to be proud of yourself because he's got to be one of the toughest people to like get fans, like people who've never seen, doesn't even know that Igmar Bergman existed, Swedish director, and then just get completely like bashed in the face with some of like the like harshest content you'll see. And yeah, he fucking loves it. And Fanny Alexander was the one where I because yeah, because I gave him the seventh seal, and I go, if you like that, do wild strawberries. And then uh then I gave him Winter Light. And and that was the my that was the test. That was the test. And then I was like, you know what? If you're really into this, do Fanny and Alexander, but do the television series. And he got back and he just was his mind was blown. And I go, it's fucking it's because it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:38

It's just so oh it's so good. I love that. Um, yeah, so Bergman's done that a few times. So if you ever see like television cut, that's what that means. Because I could yes, their TV is not like our TV, where it's more strict, stricter, or it certainly was back in the day, not now, but it certainly was back in the day. Here's a weird one Amadeus. The only version I had ever seen of the Oscar winning the best picture winning Amadeus was rated R. It was the director's cut, rated R. And I'm like, uh, okay. And I think that added in some nudity to make it R. And I think that was the only thing, you know, just like playing around and stuff, and then that comes out on 4K, and they're like, No, we're doing the theatrical cut only on 4K, and it's rated PG and it's 20 minutes shorter. And I'm going, Oh, whoa, and that it's very good. I I again minus like a little nudity and stuff. I'm going, what was the difference here? But that that is a choice that you 20 minutes, but you really don't see like them going, No, the director's cut was the definitive, the definitive edition, and now on 4K we're gonna go back to theatrical, but there you have an entire ratings change, so that's interesting. Yeah, that's a really kind of that's very interesting. Nothing startling in it to me that jumped out of like one is worse than the other. I mean, the theatrical, that's just a fun movie. That's a weird ass movie. I like that movie a lot, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:58

I haven't seen it in forever. My mom loves that movie. I need to watch that again.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:02

Allie had never seen it, heard a lot about it. We put it on, and I went, I think you're gonna be impressed. This isn't it's not like it's like Barry Linden, like it's not a stuffy old-timey movie. It's funny, it moves really well. Yeah, he's I mean, he's just like a a nut. There's oh, going back to another one that the director didn't necessarily have a hand in because he took his name off the movie and talking about David Fenture, Alien 3. Oh, yeah. That you know, that movie is that movie. I had never seen the assembly cut. I watched that, I guess last year. I thought that was a a big improvement. Again, it doesn't make like what they did to Newt in that is fucking ridiculous in the beginning of that movie. But the assembly cut was better, better realized, but it's not a terrible movie, it was just terrible in the circumstance, and the beginning is terrible. That's such a stupid thing to do. I just don't get that.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:52

It's very stupid. Yeah, you can't get around that either.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:56

Slingblade is a movie I've always loved, and when Billy when that was released on D. DVD and Billy Bob Thornton put about 30 extra minutes into it. I never really noticed. I mean, I see the scenes, but that is absolutely my preferred cut. I love Sling Blade. Would love to do a deep dive on it here. Well, but can't but isn't that a thing? Like we can't watch this anywhere. Well, I own it, man. Sling Blade is a good one. Well, I know, but I mean, but I mean, I mean, I mean Oh, no one else can. I you know what you know what I'm gonna look at. Well, I fucking can right now. Well, watch it right now. If we can't watch it, that means it is being Weinsteined. Because what he's doing is because he's gonna spend the rest of his life in prison. Presumably, he's holding on to the rights of all this stuff. He did it to Dogma, he held dogma hostage, and basically Kevin Smith was like, dude, I'll buy these fucking rights, but just give them back to me. So that sucks. I don't know. It's so stupid, man. Like that, yeah, you're right. It is not a Sling Blade is not available anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:51

So you basically like have to have the uh well, because we talk we talked about, I think we talked about this in our 1996 episode. We did, yeah. And yeah, and and I think this converse the exact conversation came up because we're like, because I that is not a movie that I have ever seen pop up on any streaming service. And every time I search for it, because I'd like I want to go back and re-watch that, especially because how much you love it. And I'm like, I can't fucking find this fucker.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:16

Not only that is it not on streaming, there's not a 4K, there is a Blu-ray, and it is topping out at a counted $66 price tag on Amazon, the Blu-ray for Sling Blade. Yeah, that's someone holding the rights and not you know letting it go. So that's yeah, uh there well, that's a whole different thing, is you know, producer involvement and all this nonsense, but yeah, that you're right. If people can't watch it, it's a tough one to do a podcast about, man. Uh, I hate that shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:48

Um, well, I know we're kind of rounding it out, but I know there was a story between Margaret, right? That Kenneth Lonergan was that yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:55

So I have that one here. That was a big thing. That was um, he, you know, Kenneth Lonergan had a cut, I guess that was a thing where it was just too long. Like his cut was three hours, and he the studio goes, We're not gonna do it. It's too long. You gotta get it down, get it down, get it down, whittle it down. He brings in Scorsese, Thelma Schoonmaker helps to cut. And that was one that I think we heard so much of that when we finally got to see the actual like theatrical cut, everyone's kind of going in, going, Well, the director's been talking a lot of shit about this and how it's like not the preferred cut. And that was I rewatched that last year. I only saw the theatrical once. It I own it, it's so both cuts are on it. And that's I'm like, Okay, a three-hour drama, I'll take the three hour, and I don't it's it's fine with me, like the three hours fine. But that's something where he dug his heels in so uh just he would not budge until he had to because the studio has the money. That it's not uh the way you want to release a movie. He should have honestly been like, Okay, I'll do your theatrical, but can you give me a director's cut on Blu-ray? Just like take that, man, take that, and then people receive it a little better because that movie barely got released in theaters because he fought with the studio for so long and spent so much money. I remember when that was released in the theaters and I saw it. Matt Damon at the time looked so much younger because they filmed it like 2006 or something. Yeah, and it got it took forever to get released. So, yeah, that was the scuttle butt behind that.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:24

And you know, and that's such an interesting thing when you just talk about like the differences between back then and now. Like, I feel like if you were to cause that kind of controversy with the movie now, that would actually sell it in a weird way, right? Like, like the while the coyote and the acme, perfect example. Like, like people are now like, Wait, you're not releasing it because the director actually is preferring a certain thing, fucking get you know, but back then, complete opposite effect, where it's sort of like this movie's been in like limbo forever. Oh, and now you're gonna release it. People lost interest, yeah. Yeah, lost interest. And when you know that the director doesn't like it, I feel like now, if like a director came out, like could you imagine like Curry Barker, yeah, caught off the presses of obsession, comes out with his next thing, and it's sort of like they fucked with it, you know. Like all of it. We've seen it, we've seen it, yeah. Yeah, like all of us, like all of a sudden, like people will become curious as to what's going on, and then because because nowadays all people want to do is just talk.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:29

Just talk. People just want to talk and talking, do it live. Um, a few others. I've I have a few classics here in the Monty Clift episode. We talked about indiscretion of an American housewife. Oh, yeah, indiscretion of yeah, and it it's so funny that they like cut out a bunch and made it like this fucking hour log thing, and then they release it as Terminal Station, and it's just it's hilarious because Terminal Station is better, but that's a classic deep cut. Sam Fuller did this with the big red one, a great war movie that I always heard was just meh because of the theatrical cut. I bought the director's cut on Blu-ray, it's amazing. I loved it, added a bunch of stuff in. Huge influence on Saving Private Ryan. If you know that people haven't seen the big red one, great. Lee Marvin, the movie rules. Payback with Mel Gibson, the theatrical, which I own here, like two copies of it. Yeah, that that's Weinstein. That's a or I think that's Weinstein, yeah. But that's that's a producer's cut. There's no narration in it. There's no so Brian Heldegan releases his it's like payback, the straight up cut. So I watched that, and when I watched it, I was laughing my ass off because this is his preferred cut, and I'm going, bro, this is like a shot for shot remake of point blank, like they're based on the same character, Parker. That's right, but like I get why the producers wanted to play with this a little bit because like your cut is it's just point blank. But that that's one where you know, huge uh studio interference there, and he got to release his cut later. Here's one you and I were texting about um almost famous.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:04

Well, this is what kind of started this whole entire podcast idea. This did this movie, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:09

Which a movie that I've always I've appreciated, but I've never loved as much as seemingly everyone else. I think I think it's a fine film. So I was not, you know, again, like this this episode has been a great excuse to upgrade a lot of my DVDs to these 4K's because like he has both versions of it. 4K, the bootleg cut. I liked it a lot more. It opened up, it's kind of this world-building thing we're talking about. It made it not just about him and opened up more of the world, and I thought it was a much better experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:42

This is I would give this movie and the director's cut of Killing of a Chinese Bookie the definitive stamp that these are absolutely without question the better ways to experience the movie. Yeah, I agree with those. Absolutely. Yep, the the almost famous, it just adds so much more really enjoyable energy and ambiance with the band.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:08

Yeah, yes, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:09

Getting, you know, that that and it matters so much because you what you end up really liking all these people, and you kind of go on the ride with you're supposed to go that the character is falling. That's the whole entire point of the movie, is that you're you're you're falling in love with the music, but then you're also just falling in love with people, and then you don't really want to fuck them over. And that's the whole entire thing is like people suck, but then we also love them, you know, and then music in the background, you know. So yeah, I think I think Almost Famous is is absolutely well worth a better uh the bootleg cut is the definitive way to watch that.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:47

I went in going, I you know, trying to do the thing that I don't I was doing the thing that I hate doing, like I don't is this gonna be worth it? And then you know, I press play and I'm like just chill because it's longer. And I yeah, I I saw the changes and I'm like, okay, I like this. I like it a lot. Um I like it, I like it a lot. I like it a lot. Here's another one I didn't have a lot of institutional knowledge for, but this is Troy, you know. In the wake of the Odyssey, I'm I watched Troy, which is more about the Iliad, the Wolfgang Peterson movie with Brad Pitt, which I would still maintain, and I'm not even talking shit. I think that's Brad Pitt's worst performance, and I've seen them all. I've seen Cool World, I've seen he is so lost, and he's admitted it since that he had no idea he was in way over his head. But anyway, I've seen the theatrical cut like once in the theater, and then after the Odyssey, I rewatched it, paid for like $3.99 streaming. And I'm like, fuck it, 4K's coming out. Director's cut. So I put it on. I'm I'm not gonna lie, I didn't notice too much difference except in the battle scenes. Oh my god. Wow, go watch. Um, if you watch this 4K, the sack of Troy, and this compared to the Odyssey, and this director's cut. I mean, he he doesn't show it, but there is there's a lot of like a sexual assault is about to happen over there. So he is taking the raping and pillaging seriously, and you don't see it, but you see like women are getting dragged off, you see that stuff. I mean, dude, there's like soldiers that I the these would have been the Greeks. I mean, they're because you know, Troy is a largely, I don't know, it's kind of told from both sides, but these Greeks are just going and like finding babies in Troy, and they're just throwing them off balconies, just launching them, launching them. You don't you just see it's like when Languzama throws the dog and yeah, that's about as much as you see. You're not seeing anything else, but you're like, holy shit. So this is one where I think Peterson could have maybe fought for them to release this director's cut because it's longer, but it's like it's Troy. I mean, it's like three hours, like that would have been fine. But I I I don't think this would have gotten an R rating, I think it probably would have gotten like NC17. I mean, the violence, yeah, yeah, especially in that sack of Troy goes hardcore and really shows like even though the Odyssey is rated R, how he was much going for much more of like um an emotional dread. It's like Troy is saving Private Ryan, and the Odyssey is the thin red line type deal. Like, you know, much more the emotional turmoil of it. Because I've seen the Odyssey, yeah, again, shitload of times, and that for an R-rated movie, it is handling that sack of Troy tastefully because there's a lot of shit going on there. But you know, it he can show someone being decapitated, it's R, but he chooses not to. Wolfgang Peterson, no qualms about that. He's gonna show heads getting cut up cut off. So that you know, again, not like my favorite movie ever, but cool little additions. Another cool little edition one that I bought, mids mid-sumar by Ari Aster, that adds about a half hour mostly of the lore stuff. So if I'm gonna put that on, I'll I'll watch that one. I I like the direction a little more.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:52

You prefer this one. I do have extra. That's a lot of time.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:56

Yeah, it makes it about three hours, or it it builds it up there, but it's a lot more like you have the lore with the community. I if memory serves, like before the main shit pops off. But I just really like that movie. I think that movie's nuts. Never seen it. And then the last one I've ever, even the original. I've never seen it. Oh, yeah, I did not know that. Have you seen hereditary? Uh-huh. I don't like it. Oh, okay. Mid mid-sumar is not that. There, there ain't nothing devil or like ghost. No, no. I no, I I love dude. Midsommar. Oh, that's that's I've always said if Igmar Bergman were alive and he made a scary movie, it would be exactly like this. Exactly like it. In terms of the violence. Yeah, in terms well, it takes place, it's in Sweden. It's all over there. So they're for like a big festival, like a Swedish festival, and this guy is basically bringing back, you know, his friends, and Florence Pugh's one of them, and you know, like his American friends, come join my midsummer celebration and how long for things to not go well. But that that's the A plot. Maybe that's the B plot. The A plot is relationship, it's a breakup movie. That's I mean, that's what it is. She's in a relationship, brother Man. Let me tell you, if you want to see an extremely accurate representation, it's it's not post-traumatic, it was the active traumatic stress that I lived through growing up. It's in these first 15 minutes because she has a sister who's out of her fucking mind, and the sister does something that was always my biggest fear growing up. Like always. Oh my big don't tell me, don't tell me, don't tell me. I won't. Even into adulthood, I was like, oh boy, and it's in the first 15 minutes of Midsummer, Midsummer, where you see that Ari Aster made his name making short films. It's a perfect 15-minute short film. It could literally when when the when the main credits for Midsummer start, you could like turn it off and be like, That was an expert 15-minute short film. It's amazing. So when you start a movie like that, I'm like, let's fucking go. It's great. I love that movie. I love that movie. I didn't know you liked it that much.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:06

Um, it's still my favorite. He's done, yeah. Is it available? Uh the director's cut available anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:12

Oh, is that just uh um, yeah, I bought like the fancy A24.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:17

Yeah, I well, I remember when you got it because I think I was like, Yeah, you showed me like the packaging for it, and it was really cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:24

And then uh there's another thing we kind of touched on it. I just I it's stupid. If this is the last one I've listed, you gotta round us out so this isn't the last one I'm talking about. There's there's also the director's cut of like a perfectly fine movie that everyone likes, like The Town, directed by Ben Affleck. Like that that theatrical cut is like fine. That director's cut, which I own on Blu-ray, is nonsense. It's literally 25 minutes of deleted scenes, and you go back and watch it, and you're like, dude, I think the deleted scenes are like available on the DVD, and you watch and you're like, you just put a deleted scenes, and he has a meat cute with Rebecca Hall twice. Like, they forget that they already fucking met because it's a direct like you forgot to include just one of the other, like where you're doing the back, it's so stupid. So that's one where I go, oh god, people, don't watch this director's cut, just theatricals, fine, like you didn't need to do this, Ben.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:17

I remember you were talking about that and how, like, yeah, they have two different meat cubes, and I was like, Oh man, it's so dumb.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:23

But that's one where you're like, Yeah, you just included deleted scenes, you didn't need to, but those are I mean, we could be here all day. This just keeps going, and every time I even looked at my collection, I was like, Jesus Christ, that because we haven't even talked about like unrated versus R versus. I mean, there's so many.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:42

Well, and that's the other thing, too, is like a director's cut is not just deleted scenes put in, like sometimes, yes, but I mean, um, that it it's it's about changing the flow of the movie, it's about adding these things, like the it's not even deleted scenes, it's ideas. Yeah, you're like it's most of the time, like the Abyss is like the perfect example. Like, yes, there are a lot of deleted scenes that were taken out because they were eliminating a whole entire idea that the theatrical just completely doesn't have. So that's sort of like the difference, I think, in mostly what makes a good director's cut or either a good director's cut or a bad director's cut, is because you're changing the experience with the movie, not just adding scenes. Because like that could be a whole entire other conversation, too. Like, what are the best deleted scenes ever? And that would just go Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:36

But that uh we talked about that a little bit with some of our picks that like we would Frankenstein that maybe okay. So if you're putting in that deleted scene, cool, but just because you put in one didn't mean you needed to put in 10 to give me a like that's what Coppola did with Apocalypse Now redux, he put everything back in, and I'm like Yeah, all the deleted scenes. The the editing of that theatrical cut is uh a miracle, like you're follow you're going, it's following this journey, you're going downriver, and all the fussiness again. While there are some things to like about like more Robert Duvall, good, we just didn't need any of that stuff, so yeah, there it's it's interesting how some just speaking for me, I'm like hardline theatrical cut. Others, I'm like, no, you gotta do director's cut, and others, like the new world, I'm like, eh, you know, I I don't know, Mitsumar. Whichever one you want, yeah. It's okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:31

So you seem pretty adamant about that 30 minutes you said you said you'd watch.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:35

No, I'm actually I'm adamant about the movie. The the those first 15 minutes I'm talking about are in both versions. Like everything, all the scenes I'm highlighting are in both versions. I I genuinely don't think I knew that you had not seen it. So good to know.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:50

It might have been one of those ones where when you were showing it to me, I just didn't admit to you I haven't seen it because I didn't want you to think down to me, but I didn't lie about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:58

I just well, yeah, that was 2019 though. We were already friends, you had nothing to look for. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:04

I might just might not want to get into it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shrugs it off.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:10

Because you did Hereditary didn't like, you did Bosefrain like did Eddington, you were kind of mixed on.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:16

So it would be good to get your it would be a good, it would be a good uh yeah, tiebreaker. I mean, and I I think I would like it too, because it sounds like it's it's kind of like everything that I would like about it. And the only reason I didn't really get with Hereditary was just they were stupid reasons, they weren't actually anything to do with the movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:33

That movie is fucking savage. That is one of the most evil movies I've ever seen. We're just evil personified wins. Not to mention like what evil does to characters uh in the movie. Don't put your head out of the window, cut folks. Tony Colette's making the fucking whatever, like the figurine of it. Gabriel Byrne comes in, he's like, that's a bit much, don't you think? Like the head on the side of the road. Jesus Christ, that movie. Uh, do you have any others that pop out?

SPEAKER_01 1:46:08

Any director's cuts, anything, or well, I the only one I was gonna put in was my what are you watching? Okay, cool. Which is it, which isn't one that I actually recommend, but it's what I was watching, and I and I feel it's worth talking about.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:21

Yes, I I want to hear about it. I can kind of go first for mine. Well, it what I was gonna do is I was gonna pick my favorite director's cut of all time. So I have mentioned it, but that's just and so I'll go first because we've already talked about it a bunch. If someone's gonna ask, the notion of a director's cut, and you know, instead of listening to our two-hour episode, I give them 30 seconds. I would say the definitive best one to me is the abyss. Go watch both versions. You you are not gonna be mistaken about what is added, you will know the things that are added, and then you'll see like the world building being more afraid of like nuclear destruction in general, which I don't think the theatrical goes into as much.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:59

And I think you can it makes its effort to stay away from it, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:47:03

Right, exactly. So I think you can see two clear versions, and to me, there is a superior cut. So that for a long time is what I've said is you know, that's that would be probably my number one for reasons of like the studio didn't let him include stuff, so he went back and direct and then made a director's cut, and then my one B is Chinese bookie, because then it's the total opposite, where he had full control of the theatrical, but then listened to responses, listen to you know, low box office numbers, listen to his star, and then re-cut it on his own and released it, and that's much more successful. But with both, I'm still recommending the director's cuts, but for different reasons.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:45

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I and I would agree with both of those, like even though we talked about almost famous, like uh I I I vouch for that one. But yeah, I would the Abyss number one, bookie, and then I'd go almost famous for like three where you were gonna be getting a better version of the experience with the director's cut. Yeah, yeah. All right, what's yours? Sounds like it in looking at this, I would I found out some interesting information about Wim Wenders' until the end of the world. It's long. Oh, it's long, but apparently there was I don't I I know I haven't the it's either 20 hours or 12 hours. Okay. He had a cut, a version of this movie that was one of those two, and obviously uh no one is gonna sit for a for a a full day's worth of a movie. So he did get it down to about four plus. I think it's like four hours, maybe like five minutes.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:51

It says the initial cut of the movie was reportedly 20 hours long.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:57

Okay, good. I what I didn't want to miss because I knew it was I knew it was outrageous. I I it's on criterion, as is a lot of Win Wender stuff, and I watched it. Oh man, it's even harder getting through these four hours.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:12

Um yeah, what so you watch the director's cut, which I'm seeing is 287 minutes. Is that the one you watched?

SPEAKER_01 1:49:18

Yes. That's the one, that's the one that's on criterion channel. Wow. That is an and there and there's opening credits that actually explain the history of this, and they explain that this is Wim Wenders for Vim Vendors. Uh this was his big like Magnum opus. This was the movie that he wanted to make forever and felt like he finally could. And then cutting it down from 20 hours to this 287 version of Yev, he goes, This is the only movie that the only way I want anyone to watch this movie is this cut. And I don't know what everyone else's opinion of it was. There's some very cool production design. There is a cool notion of this ultimate road movie because it basically that's what it is. There's some fun dynamics between William Hurt and this main woman actress, who I don't know her name. There's some good moments throughout the entire movie, but even for I don't even know if you were to cut it down from four hours to two hours, if you kind of get something that that is actually trying to kind of do what I think he had in his mind tried for it to do. Wow. Um, but I don't know. I I've I haven't I haven't gone through to kind of look at what the overall uh opinion, public opinion is of this movie, but I am a uh Vim vendors fan, and this one just like it did it missed the mark for me. But in terms of a director's cut, I can't think of anyone that had a 20-hour cut of the movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:02

I don't even know how uh yeah, like I I part of me is interested just to go see. I mean, you're yeah, 287 minutes, that's you're getting close to five hours there. That's like no joke. I've seen it pop up, you know, when I I type in like longest movies ever. I'm gonna watch War and Peace on Criterion. They break that up into chapters, yeah, yeah. And I'm not gonna sit there for six and a half or whatever straight hours and watch War and Peace, but maybe like two hours a day for a few days. Yeah, this is oh I I did I I did like one hour.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:33

I did, I I cut it up for myself.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:35

How far along are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:51:36

Oh, I'm done. I finished it. Oh, you finished it? Oh, was it worth it? Oh yeah, I guess, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:40

No, okay. So when it got what did you do like when the end credits came up?

SPEAKER_01 1:51:47

Were you like okay? I was I was just sort of like, all right, we gotta like I checked out of that whole entire experience in the first hour. Wow. I I but I but I was like, but I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, I've all I've started something, I'm not gonna not finish it because I started it for a reason. So then, but then it be kind of becomes like, all right, well, let's see what this guy was after. You know, he has this big idea that he was trying to communicate. The dark just seemed to be too close and and and wasn't really fully able to kind of execute, but again, I don't know what everyone else, maybe I'm completely like on an island with it, but I just I just was like, there's there's a lot going on to unpack, and none of it's being executed well enough, but there is some there's some very cool imagery. I mean, Robbie Mueller shot it, yeah, and there's a really great soundtrack, and there is like a a cool, there is a cool love triangle dynamic, but even that it doesn't, it's not like none of it ever seems fully realized by the end of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:58

Pretty bizarre for a four-hour movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:02

Yeah, exactly. And and you know, it's funny though, because it does kind of mention like there are some like the things that you'll find about it, like is it it brings up this idea of of screens and how you know uh we'll as a human race we're gonna lose ourselves to them. Oh and like that, but but again, like it's cool, but it's not it's not, it's it's like it's not realized, right? It's just not fully realized in any sort of way.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:24

Yeah, that's 13 minutes shy of five hours, and it is available for 4k on Criterion. I I might have to say pass. I mean, I love William Hurt, but my God, 20-hour cut, Jesus. Well, that's yeah, until the end of the world.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:39

Until the end of the world, or until the end of this movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:42

Yeah, will you make it to the end of this movie or will the world end first? Oh god. So at this point, yeah. Oh, yeah, seriously. That was a lot of fun though. That was I mean, you know, there's so many more to talk about. I wanted to really hit on the big ones and then the big directors, and then just kind of go round robin on some that we like. And this is an ongoing thing that could always happen. I feel like, I mean, a lot of the ones I mention are relatively new releases, like in COVID. So yeah, directors can always do this. What what will be next? And then the fan cuts are always out there too. But yeah, fun director's cut. It's it's it's not uh you can't give a definitive answer about which ones are better. It's really a movie-by-movie basis, and it depends on the reasons.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:25

It really is, and but I suppose if you are gonna be getting one from Michael Mann or Ridley Scott, maybe it does come with a little bit of like uh okay, well, let's all be careful, let's settle down.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:35

Yeah, like Ridley Scott. I'm here like Blade Runner, okay, King of Heaven good, the counselor good, and then Alien. I don't really, you know, know much of the difference. Napoleon, uh, good job. I'm glad you added that back in. Michael Mann is you you're fussing a little too much. Like, I like the black hat changes, but that's not your best movie by far. And then your good movies, you're just messing up. Stop.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm I'm I'm saying I'm I'd be funny, it'd be fun if we could watch the Miami Vice one together. Uh is it coming, is it giving a theater release?

SPEAKER_00 1:55:06

I don't know if he's gonna do it in theaters, but it's it just played, I think, I think it had a screening in New York, or one screening is coming up because it's a 4K screening. So we're a lot of the fans are thinking, okay, he this is gonna be the 4K release. But like we said, if it's if it's a one-disc 4K release, you can only go with one version of the movie, and that'll be rude if he does his brand new cut as the only 4K. I can't imagine it's better than the theatrical. I have no idea because the theatrical was fine to me. As someone who likes loves that movie so much, and it's a very divisive movie. I'm like, why are you fucking with something that the fans loved? I don't know. But no, we uh stay tuned for that because yeah, it's it's supposed to be out maybe this year. A new cut.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:51

All right. Well, I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm eagerly and hesitantly. It's I feel the same way about uh the the the the uh cliff booth movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:00

I'm excited, but I'm also very uh Me too. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm I'm waiting for you to see that one first. I mean I'm going completely off of what you say. Well, I mean, I even if I like it, that doesn't mean you will.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:12

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:13

But you know, but I'll just ask you like, do they peel back the curtain too much? Or are we just dropping in on Cliff in the next 70s and we're just whatever's happened is happening. I hope that's what it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:24

I think I hope so. I was pleased to find out that shortly after the movie's release, Tarantino's releasing the novelization. He has he wrote another book for it, so I'm gonna buy that.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:34

Oh, geez.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:34

Well, that's the problem where this all started. I know it started from the book of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, kept stuff going. This guy doesn't know when to shut up. He doesn't know when to shut up. He's we're never getting the 10th movie. That's what I'm predicting. We're just never gonna get it. He's gonna shoot five years from now, he's gonna be like, Oh, I gave that up. Uh Kill Bill one and two or two movies. Okay, fine, bye. That's 10. Like, I don't know. He's got seriously, he's gonna talk himself. He talks a lot. We know this.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:02

I mean, I think it's just uh you just have to give it some time before you can just walk back this statement. Because thing is, is like if you give yourself any sort of definitive final finality to anything where you still have a lot of life left to live, it's impossible to say, no, I'm only gonna do this because then it just puts so much pressure on that last project. Yeah. That yeah, you're that like I think the movie critic was a perfect example. I don't think that that that movie for whatever reason got shelved because I I think he was sort of like, I don't want this to be my last. Yeah, so I'm just not gonna do it. Yep. And so this will keep happening until he just sort of like, you know what? I said what I said, I was an idiot. I'll make this, I'll make that, I'll make what I want before I die.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:47

Maybe. I mean, that's another possibility too. But this I don't know, this retirement he's got himself in, yeah, whatever. That's a whole nother story. But I I mean, you we could include that. Killbill volume one and two is kind of a director's cutty. He released the he said he was never gonna release the whole bloody affair, and that's available now on 4K. I did not buy it because I was told it it is the exact same renders as what is already on the Killbill 4K one and two, and I don't like those 4Ks, I don't think they look good. And to your point, they do like it's just fucking stupid to break the movies up like that. I hear even the whole bloody affair literally is two discs, so like it ends with the first movie, and then you have to put in the disc. And when I saw it in the theater, I went, Well, you have an intermission right at where I would have done it at home. Like, this seems I I I don't know. I I just don't I don't really get it either. Uh, that's one where I would prefer to watch the the solos, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:42

Probably well, and also here's the deal let's say that it was never split up to begin with, right? Let's just say, like, he we've never even had this conversation. It was just kill Bill. That was it. It's gonna be a four-hour plus movie, anyways. Yeah, if you are actually going to take on that challenge to watch it, you're either gonna do it in a theatrical setting to where you're just gonna sit down in the theater, I'm giving my four hours of this, or if you're at home, you're gonna break that shit up. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like you just naturally would because you're like, I don't want to give four hours, but I want to start it, and you know what? Perfect midpoint.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:19

Yeah, right here. She just took out a whole bunch, yeah, exactly. It's like it you set up the midpoint for yourself, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:27

You just would because it's natural that it would be there. Oh, QT.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:31

We'll see. Yeah, no, probably no director. Well, no, I mean he always said he would he could do a release a longer version of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood that he has all this deleted material for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:40

He's there was that whole entire hubbub about putting on Netflix and doing a hateful which he did, and that's a director's cut.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:48

I actually probably would enjoy that version. I did too. I I mean it's just it that's more of what we're talking about in the vein of like just a little bigger, but I don't I really don't know like whole entire things that are different.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:00

He just kind of made every scene a little longer, and enough to at least place it in in a mini-series type situation where it's like, all right, well, here's here's one chapter, here's another chapter, right? And you know, and that's and that's what he's good at. If anyone can carve out good chapters, it's QT. Cinematically, it's Qt.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:20

That's it. That's all I got for the director's cut episode. Go watch your go watch your baby, yeah. Snip snip. Don't add ad Vim vendors 20 hours. How how how many times did you watch that cut, Vim? Like I don't, whatever. It's ridiculous. Good 20 hours. Uh all right, Patreon. We are on Patreon, patreon.com slash W A Y W. Go find us there. We just recorded an episode of a bunch of new movies that we saw, so you can get the 2026 update over on Patreon. wayw podcast.com is where you can find everything else. But as always, thanks for listening and happy watching. Hey everyone, thanks again for listening. Visit w aywpodcast.com for everything. You can write to us, donate, buy our merch, and join our Patreon. What are you watching? Bonus features is available at patreon.com slash WAYW. For a few bucks a month, you'll get new uncut episodes. Visit WAYWPodcast.com for more. We're getting close to 200 themed episodes, and we have a lot of fun stuff planned, like episode 198, 199, 200, a lot of fun stuff coming. But first, back to the WAYW New Hollywood Film Project, and we're taking it all the way back to the beginning of the movement. The one that started it all, Bonnie and Clyde, one of the most monumental movies in the history of the art form. And we have a blast breaking it all down. Stay tuned.