185: Damien Chazelle

Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching? I'm Alex whipped out. I'm joined by my best man, Nick Dostal. How are you doing there, Buzz Aldrin? Oh, I thought we were to go with Neil. I thought for sure you were going to go with Neil. Give me Neil. No way. No, man. You're more. You're more charismatic than Neil. You're more of a buzz. Buzz has got, like, the charm. Neil. I thought about it, but I. You're not, you're not. You don't have the stoicism of the first man to land on the moon. Or did he or did did he or did he? Did it happen? He didn't even have. It was like an extra like our were that it just goes into that like ten years later. Was the moon landing faked this week? I think if you go if there was like a real conversation between Neil and Buzz when they were like, whoa, whoa whoa whoa. Why are you get to do this? Yeah. It's like, dude, I've been through a lot. I think it should be me. I think I should go first. So good. Here today we are talking about Damien Chazelle. Fool director profile doesn't have a lot of movies. Absolutely the youngest director we've covered. But this is what we're doing because we we have had some talks behind the scenes and we want to not, you know, we're still going to be what are you watching. You know, welcome to but we're going to focus on for the rest of this year probably do. We only did one director in 2025, Steven Soderbergh. That's because he has such a big, big filmography. We were also dedicated to the W, a new Hollywood film project. But yeah, I think we're going to knock out a few more directors. We just did. Jarmusch. Now we're doing a slightly smaller filmography. The next one, which will be a few months from now, is a much bigger filmography. So yes, I'm excited. How do you feel to be here? Well, I feel fucking great to be here because. Good. You. Great, you mad movie buffs have demanded that you like the directors. And you know what we're going to give them. True. But we have been talking about doing a some form of a Damien Chazelle conversation for a very, very long time. I want to even kind of say there was even a whiplash idea in the first year that we were doing definitely like it. It was definitely in contention for our first commentary. I know that because we talked about that a lot. And then for like an early deep dive, go back to like all the way in this single digit episodes, it's like, you know, we're covering somewhere by Sofia Coppola. And then shortly later we did like Place Beyond the Pines and stuff. But yeah, whiplash was always in contention because it is an extremely popular film. It's like on letterbox. It's one of the most logged movies on Letterboxd ever. It is so popular and it's so it's very well liked, and it's just a lot of fun to talk about. And I, you know, what a great way to, like, start off your career, even though, as we've discovered, as we've always known, but as now that we have gone back to his actual technical first film, Guy and Madeline on a park bench. Yeah, but I mean, whiplash was like the big announcement, and he's I'm going to talk about the other directors of his generation. And there are some directors who may have made more, though not really. Were there still like in the four or 5 or 6 movie range or less. But his to me just stick out in terms of craft, storytelling, score my God above the rest. I think he's a generational talent. I think he's probably the best director of his generation, in my opinion, and we have actually been saying this for quite a bit, and I know it was definitely solidified for the two of us with his 2022 Babel Babylon. Sorry, Babylon, but no, we have kind of had this conversation in terms of these American filmmakers. Who is the next who is going to become that? Honestly, there are not many names that I can really think of that are kind of taking over those reins. The ones that we all have are the ones we've been talking about for 20 years. Christopher Nolan, I think, is at the very top of that list in terms of who is the most today's most powerful, who is the most influential, who is the most? I mean, Christopher Nolan has reached a level in terms of his, just directing who he is as a director, where his name overshadows the stars. You're going to see. Yeah, he has the most command of Hollywood in terms of director right now than anyone he can command. I mean, the Odyssey is going to come out and then three years later in 2029, when he's going to make another movie, it can be about anything. It can star anyone. It can be told in whatever way it wants to tell. And he can get probably 200 million or more for it, and he can demand the distribution of it. He's the only director. Not even Villeneuve can do that. Certainly not Tarantino. There's there are not I mean, Fincher's making movies on Netflix there. Yeah. So it's Nolan. And then I mean, Damien Chazelle has that cachet. It's a little trickier right now. But yes. Well, this is the point is that, you know, all these directors you talked about Fincher, Tarantino, Scorsese, these guys have all been in the conversation for a very long, their way older. Oh, yeah, their way older than him. Damien Chazelle has only been on everyone's radar for the last 12 years, and his last two efforts are arguably some of the most well-made pieces of business that all do not get talked about. Babylon is sort of getting a new life to it, but it was just completely, universally shut out of any type of conversation when it came out. And yeah, and I think it's I think it's important to kind of talk about these directors when, even though he does have something new coming out soon. You know, I think one of the things that we try to do here. What are you watching? Or kind of talk about the things when. Yes, when they are popular. But what happens in those valleys, you know, those peaks and valleys, because it's always trendy to start talking about somebody in their work when they're hitting it big. But let's talk about the guy that could be the next great American filmmaker that we don't have a list for anymore. Like we don't have. Like, you know, there's really him and he is our hope. Yeah. I mean, honestly, yes there are this is a to, you know, some generational stuff like Chazelle is someone who loves movies, cares about the art form, shoots on film when he can. We're covering him because there aren't too many directors his age like him. Here are a few others that people know Jordan Peele, Barry Jenkins, Greta Gerwig, Ryan Coogler, Ari Astor, Zafar brothers they're all notable directions within a few years of Chazelle. They all like movies. They all care about the art form. But I really do think if we're talking like a cinematic hope, Chazelle is the answer to me above even all of them in terms of what he's trying to say, how he's trying to say it. And then I, I think he's had a more polarizing career than anyone I just mentioned. I mean, Ari Aster is doing his own thing. I love his command, and they're their friends, like I, Ari Aster ain't trying to get nominated for or win awards, I don't think. Ever. That's not his bag. He's he's a hope for me in terms of like a new gas bar. Even he's not as hardcore as Gaspar, but like an American Gaspar in a way a provocateur, Ari. Asteroids, a provocateur to me. And that's why I really love him, even if I don't do backflips over all the movies. Damien Chazelle is a technician. He's a craftsman. These movies are immaculately made, whether you like them or not. And one of the coolest. No, that's the wrong word. One of the most interesting, which is a boring word, and it's just very interesting. His career in the 12 years you mentioned, because whiplash comes out, that movie costs $3.3 million. That's some heavy hitter produce, heavy hitting producers. But in terms of how much money it made it like the what is it like the gross, the per capita thing. And it's such a small budget. It made so much fucking money, wins three Oscars. It's this crazy indie success of the year. And then his next movie merits him an award in which he is still the youngest winner of the Best Director Oscar ever. When he won for La-La land, he was 32 years old. That movie at the time got a record tying 14 Oscar nominations, now usurped by sinners like the welcoming of whiplash and then La La Land. It is hollow, Damien. Like we found him. He's here. We love him. Youngest, best director. And then one of the strangest, again, interesting things. Two years later, he releases his most mature film. It's a kind of. It's a biopic about Neil Armstrong, first man, and it lands to tepid applause. And people who see it like it, but no one goes to see it. And that I remember, like thinking, oh, he's going to repeat La-La land. Like, why, why, why shouldn't First Man get 14 nominations? It's more it has all the technical achievements, if not greater than La La Land. And it is. It's just released at like a whisper and no one really cares. Like, I mean, I think I thought Gosling was a shoo in to be nominated, never even in the discussion. And you had speech berg executive produce. That's what I mean. And it's like, it's a really fucking good movie. Like it's really, really is. Okay, okay. If it's I mean, if it's too long, like, I don't know what the reasoning is, but that's one where I a few times a year I look and I go, wow, they just gave up on that movie in 2018 is not a good Oscar year. Both me and Rhapsody won four fucking Academy Awards that year. Like what? And most of those at one on first man nominations like sound mixing, sound editing and the sound of First Man. It's incredible. It's one of the best so far this century. Oh my. Macy. Yes! It's so like you feel like you're gonna come out of your chair. You're like, oh my God, are they actually gonna land on the mood like you're 4% left? It's like we're 60 minutes or 60s away from automatic abort. You're like, I get chills talking about it. I didn't even know that was a thing. When I saw First Man for the first time, I didn't know that they had overshot their landing. And they're, you know, over like a fucking crater the size of Texas or whatever. But I'm like, oh, God. And I saw, we'll get to it. But I also want to point out, because I am, you know, I know my my way around the space world. That movie is very historically accurate. Yeah. I mean, it seems like you went to great lengths and the way each space mission is filmed differently, like that one with Abbott, where it's like we're in case in a fucking tomb and doom, doom, it just goes out. And then the spinning, I mean, row, that spinning is insane. And I mean, four years earlier we had an amazing spinning sequence in interstellar. And he doesn't try to best that. He just does like a very realistic, pragmatic thing with it of like, this is what it's like, I'm locking you in this ship for this mission and we ain't leaving. Look how these guys almost died. I mean, you see people die like in the Apollo one mission. It's. I mean, I love that movie. It's so strange to me how it was rejected. And just let me keep going on this path for a little bit, because four years later, Babylon is released. The reception to Babylon has never been strange to me. It's a very polarizing film. The thing that happened to it that I think happened to licorice pizzas, that a lot of people decided to hate it without ever seeing a second of it, and they decided they didn't, and they just prejudged it ahead of time. I like it wasn't a surprise to me that Babylon didn't do well with Oscars. It did decent with critics. It is a surprise that it is truly one of the biggest bombs in Hollywood like it of the last several years. When I say this thing bombed, I'll get into the numbers when we talk about it, but it just absolutely fucking tanked. And that was four years ago. But in those four years, we've seen a rebirth for it in a way that first man I don't think is ever going to get no, which is crazy. But like, my dad had never even seen Babylon. I don't know, he goes, how did I miss this? He wanted something to watch. And it's on Netflix right now. So I was like, give it a shot, but just stick with the first five minutes. Understand what you're seeing in the first five minutes is very intentional and hang on. And he loved it because it's it's a movie that knows exactly what it is like. It's absurd. It's over the top. It's also kind of real. It's a lot real. When he was done, he goes, that's what I've always heard, that it was like it was just the wild on West. There were no rules. Drugs weren't illegal like they were. You could just do them. And I mean, we'll we'll yeah, we'll get into like, how awesome that movie really fucking is. But it actually blows my mind. I can wrap my head even though I disagree. I can wrap my head around why people wouldn't want Licorice Pizza. Because you can attach yourself to the narrative of like, okay, that's weird. Like the grooming and all that. Whatever. Jesus. Sure, if that's where you want to hang your hat, you can. There's a rack for it. I suppose there is. There is no rack for Babylon. Like there isn't like there like you can tell me, like, okay, maybe. Sure. Maybe that movie's not your cup of tea. That's fine. You can say, like, I just don't really. Not my thing. I don't really like. Okay, fine. But there is no like, there's no stance that you can make. How that movie bombed is so wild. And at that time, there was a whole entire. You were kind of alluding to it earlier, like after the La-La land, the love that the filmmaking world had for Damien Chazelle, it just went away almost. It's crazy. This does happen. Sometimes they over praise one movie and then they completely ignore the next movie. They do this with directors a lot, trust me. But of our lifetime. That's why he's so fun to talk about because we've like, we were around for all these movies, like we saw them in the theater. We were engaged in the discourse. You know, we're not going back to like the 70s, which is based on research. Like we we are talking from personal experience here. But yeah, I mean, I, I don't know the, the thing about Babylon that I'll say I do get white bombed like it's long, it's this and that. There's elephant shit in like the first four minutes, blah, blah, blah. I, I get it, but also, what do you mean you get to know you or anything? I know, but I'm just saying, like any person who has the the faintest appreciation for the cinematic art form, if you just go watch the Welcome to College segment from Babylon, there's virtually no way you can say that's stupid or poorly made, like the discovery of sound. I don't know if it's ever been shown better in a fucking movie before. It's been done in a lot of I mean, the artist does it, you know, like sound coming to cinema, but just welcome to college. Like it's, oh my God. And all the different ways it goes. I got dice like it's fantastic. But, yeah, I meant to do this up top. But before we get to the filmography, Chazelle little ad break here for w w podcast whenever you want to go there, our new website, you can do everything there. You can buy merch here. This here. What I'm doing here. Nice cup of coffee. I see you got the. You got the head. That out of the way? Black coffee mug here. We got magnets. We got shirts. 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Yeah, and over the course of the years, you all have been with us. So this page on account is all because of you. So thank you so much. You all rock. And if if you want it, it's there. We so much encourage it. We're trying to do a lot of cool interactive stuff on there with you on there as well. But this is all because of you. So thank you for the growing success of What Are You watching? It literally wouldn't happen without you. And so to the moon bezel to the moon Neil. Yeah, it was good. It works out I know. Well, you know, thematically it works out better. Damien Chazelle, born just a few months before your loyal podcast host in 1985. By far the youngest director we've covered on this podcast. Born in Providence, raised in print, raised in Princeton by two teachers. He come, I like him. He comes off as cool. But this dude is smart. Like, if you listen to one of his commentaries, he keeps using these giant S.A.T. words with which I know the much smaller versions of. And I'm like, could have said that. It just makes me laugh because he's not arrogant. He's not arrogant at all. He definitely busts balls, like with his collaborators. The biggest of which Chazelle goes to Harvard graduates in 2007. His roommate is his still composer, Justin Horowitz. I think this is a key to to Chazelle's success the this that the fact that he has Horowitz's music because Chazelle makes his thesis film guy and Madeline on a park bench for about $60 with heroines. It premieres at Tribeca in 2009, and seven years later, Chazelle becomes the youngest winner of the best Director Oscar ever. And the first movie we're going to start here. You know, we've talked about Chazelle a lot on the pod. We've done two Babylon episodes. We did a review immediately after seeing it in the theater, and then we did a commentary on it. So we've, you know, we've talked about Chazelle, but even when we did that initial Babylon review, we ranked his films, but we left Guy and Madeline on a park bench off because we had not seen it. That is not the case anymore. Did you think of this film? I mean, this is the thing that I had to say that I really, really loved about it. And it kind of, kind of only can really come from a perspective of something just suited for this. This is a great example of a director re like when you know, all of Damien's like filmography whiplash, La-La land, Babylon, you can see all of his ideas. You can see all of what makes this guy tick, what he's kind of after. We talk about this so much when we do these director episodes, because it's like, if you truly follow a filmmaker in their filmography, what you start to realize is the exact same shit is happening and popping up in every single movie. There's no director that is is without this. It's who they are. Always have their things. There may not even be conscious of them, but it's the way characters look it. It's all this stuff. It's it's the the cuts that they choose to use of the performance. It's just their style. You catch on to it. And yet rarely do we start with this with the deep cut indie. The rarely is following the first Nolan movie that people see, you know, very rarely, but even. But then when you go back, you're like, it's oh, it's there. Like it's there's a lot of whiplash. There's a lot of la la la la la la la la la. It feels like the la precursor for it almost. You know, when you're a filmmaker, you probably do have a you're hoping that's not going to be the case, but you probably have idea. This might be the only thing I ever get to do. Yeah. And so let's just get it all in. And then as you, you know, progress and you get more money, you get more, you know, you start to kind of like take these ideas or these tastes or the style or even just straight up scenes and you're like, you finesse me. You're like, got more money now. So yes, you got more toys, prettier actors, whatever it is. So yeah, you keep playing with these themes that I totally do. I mean, when, when we make stuff. When I make stuff, I don't know if I'm going to make something against. I'm like, I'm putting it. Here we go. I'm throwing it on the wall. If I get the opportunity and the time and the funds to make something again, and there's some duplicate, I don't know, line of dialog or like, hey, whatever, it's because I didn't know I was going to get another shot. Yeah. And that's it. And there's so many times where it is, it could be dialog. It could be a scene idea. It you. I even think of like, you know, I've talked about you and there I go where I still have this idea of a guy walking into a bar being completely isolated and what that environment is like. I still don't feel like we nailed it in, like, there I go. So like, if I ever get an opportunity again, like, all right, let's really fucking get this one, you know? But those those are those ideas and this movie is chock full of them, man. Like this is. But this is also another thing kind of we'll talk about it as it goes. But you talk about that collaboration with Justin Hurwitz and him. You can tell that Damien Chazelle, he loves music and he has a huge passion for well, I mean, obviously jazz, but musicals, like, there is something about this whole entire world and this is what every director needs to do. You put your passions out there. You you create what you know. There's absolutely no way when you're saying, like Justin Hurwitz, this collaboration, you have to know that these are probably two guys, that they love it the exact same way, like they feel about music, and it comes through the work. It always does. It does. Yeah. And it's real easy to kind of make these associations for Whiplash and La La Land as we'll get into them. But then when you do see First Man, a movie that truly has absolutely nothing to do with music, his only one, his only one, but yet it's there and it's so it's so beautiful and specific. But, Guy and Madeline and a park bench, a lot of fun with this music and, and in a way that I like, because it is there's not really a lot of musical qualities to it. The, the, the musical numbers that we ended up seeing. What is that word that you always use? I forget it, diegetic. I always think it's didactic, but diegetic. Yeah. This movie has much more of that as opposed to musical numbers, so I appreciate that. Well, this is why I have been trying to get you to rewatch the Babylon template singing in the rain for ages, because all of its they don't just like stop and break into song, they do, but they're Gene Kelly when he's I'm singing in the rain, he is literally just a guy who starts singing. There's a cop who looks at him and he's like, why the hell is this guy singing? Those are the type of ones I like where they're like, actually singing. And everyone around him is going like, why are these people singing here? You know, like La-La land Breaks? You know, it goes into very traditional musical numbers where, like, everyone at a party is dancing. That's we're talking about the other thing where like, if you went to a party with three of your friends and you were dancing, everyone would be like, what the fuck are these five on? So yeah, yeah, I get it. But the right away it's the score that pops out. I've seen a lot of movies that cost around this much, you know, 50, $60. I've made one. A feature film that cost, you know, when it was all said and done and I didn't have this, like, heavy orchestral score that just sounds right out of, like, an old school MGM musical. It does. And it's the fact that you have that it would be not unlike if Justin Hurwitz was not a composer, but this genius cinematographer who had, like, all these cameras that his dad left him. And he's like Russian lenses, lenses from the 70s. So then Guy and Madeline on a park bench looks like it's worth like $10 million here. We just have that sonically. We have the audio version of that and that. That was the first thing I noticed. I texted you right away. I was like five minutes and I go, man, this score is something else. It really not only do we not just hear this in movies, you never hear this in a movie that's this indie like in a thesis film. And it just helps carry the story along so, so much. But also another thing, if you haven't seen this movie, which I imagine a lot of people have, and you're just assuming it's going to be hard to find. Here's the thing. Just go to YouTube and type in the title. And I usually don't like promote this stuff, but the reason why I'm promoting it is because Damien Chazelle has a Best Director Oscar. If you wanted to use his flex to take to get his first film taken off the internet, he could, but he hasn't. In the video feed I watched on YouTube, the lead actor commented with people, he's like, I'm the lead of this movie. And he was like giving comments to people. So it's still online and very easy to find because the powers that be don't mind and they want you to watch it, so just go watch it that way. It's very short. But yeah, I mean, you know, it's two people who are in young love. That initial honeymoon phase of the new relationship is over. It fades, you know, and then and then what now fades out. Move. Move on. Do you find others again? Not like La La Land. And that it's not this grand, sweeping romance that's covering years. We're just in it for a few months where people are just kind of intersect, intersecting for a few months. But there's also a way that Damien in all of his movies, the way that he moves through time. Oh, yeah. Yes, he's very good at this and very confident. He really doesn't talk like the characters aren't like, wow, we've been together for four months. I mean, he just boom, boom, boom. No. And you and you can understand that time has passed, even in this movie where it's sort of like, oh, I can imagine. Maybe it's been maybe a month or maybe it's been, you know, like this or that. You get these great ideas of that and, you know, there's some great numbers in here, but then there's some really great, like one on one scenes like that subway scene, very shame esque in a lot of ways. Oh, very. I know that too. Like walking up, you know, we're cutting to the hands, I know. Yeah, it was it was crazy where I went. This is two years before shame. But, I mean, there's no way Steve McQueen saw this, but yes, the, you know, catching eyes standing up. Yeah. Standing behind. Yeah. Do our, our our hands gonna hit on the railing. Yeah. All that stuff the it's very, very heavy in terms of that that, that sensuality and it sort of catches you and you're like oh wow. Okay. And then you've got the shower scene, which I thought was another lovely scene where he's basically, you know, telling that his, her, his family's coming in and she's not aware. So she's very much like, oh, well, how long are they going to be? But just very, very real. It's, it's it's what Damien Chazelle does very well is he can balance like very, very over the top moments with these grounded human moments. It's a special touch that he has that he's even showing how good he is at that in this movie. Yeah. Like right away even that the that plot description I laid out, none of that is very explicit. Like it's the, the first like 5 or 10 minutes or zoom and zoom and zoom in and then we get this title card that says, I think it was like three months earlier or three months later or something. And I went, oh, okay. So I actually I did watch this in one stretch, but then I went back and I was rewatching stuff because I went, oh, we're in New York now. We're not in Boston anymore. Yeah, yeah. It has this confidence, this narrative confidence to not hold your hand at all. And then it the look of it, you know, it's shot in grainy black and white, but it also it looked gorgeous to me and it reminded me a lot of shadows. I it just did. Oh yeah. Out here on the street. Black and white roller I mean you go watch shadows and you see every other Cassavetes. It's what we're talking about. You. The genesis of who Cassavetes is as a filmmaker, right there in shadows. It's right there, just like it is for this. So, yeah, it's it's a it's a hard sell for me. It's a sell from both of us to go and check this out. I really I enjoyed my time with it much more than I thought I would. And it is a, it is a very good, you know, indie micro-budget feature film from a now very popular director. All right. So next after Guy and Madeline, you know, it hits a few festivals and then he writes The Last Exorcism Part two. Not to be confused with the preceding film, The Last Exorcism, and he uses that paycheck to fund a short titled whiplash. This is an extremely well acted and shot film. It's a very accomplished short. It does have a few huge producers Jason Blum, massive producer fame, composer Nicholas Brettell, who does like the succession theme. Tom Cross edits it. So you know he's he's gonna short guy in a few years, and then next year he's going to win an Oscar for editing this feature. And it stars J.K. Simmons, who will appear later in the feature as Fletcher. So this short, we just wanted to, you know, have a little time to pull out the whiplash short. It's like 18 minutes. It's on the whiplash DVD in 4K if they even do a commentary for it, which is fun. But yeah, it's it's one scene and it's the first time Andrew is in Fletcher's class. So you get, you know, making fun of the poor fat kid who plays it, reprises his role in the feature, and then you get the slapping, you know, rushing or dragging. So it's all that and it is really well done. It's just a lot of fun to watch. It's it's so much fun to watch when you know, the actual movie and you can kind of see like where this all started and why. It just works. Like you watch the full length, it's one of the most impactful scenes of the entire movie. You watch the short, it doesn't lose any of that. And credit to J.K. Simmons for, you know, you can you can absolutely see like where these ideas started. And that's the thing. Like you film a short film and you give a performance. There is some sort of kind of like pressure is like, can I do this again? Like yeah. Like how? Like what if we. What if we don't make the short as, like in the future? What if we don't do as good of a job as the short? And I'm sure you probably tell yourself all sorts of things as like the filmmakers. Well, you're like, well, no one's going to know because no one's ever seen the short. But but you had that pressure, right? Because you can you can in the commentary. It's great to listen to everyone talk about how proud they are of that short and going into the filming. They're like, man, can we do it as good? Can we? Can we top it? Can we, can we squeeze more out of it? It's I mean, it is it's just like just like Guy and Madeleine is not a traditional like clunky micro-budget first feature. This whip, this whiplash short is not your average short film that you're going to see. You know, in a festival package. Like, this thing is extremely accomplished, very well shot. And yeah, Jake is like, you see him in whiplash and he won the Oscar for it, but that intensity is still here. So it's like small short like it's it is here. He's screaming. He's doing all the things you're going to see in the future. They they shot this short in three days. And then the filming for the feature took two days. That's crazy. Yeah, that's pretty crazy. And then one thing I just want to point out about the short, because I feel like this is something that like you're going to notice, obviously, you know, J.K. Simmons is still in the full length feature, but the actor playing Miles teller part is played by Johnny Simmons. No relation to J.K. Simmons. You know you don't really ever kind of know at the end of the day what the ins and outs of why that actor didn't make it into the feature, but I loved that they pointed out some of the strengths of Johnny Simmons performance, which because that's the one thing I think as an audience, you'll kind of feel that. I think it's just naturally like, oh, well, that's not the actor I know. So you're watching Miles teller, that's not Miles teller, that's somebody else. But when you kind of just look at it for what it is and look what another actor does with the same material, this is what's so cool about this crazy businesses that we're in, because you're looking at the exact same character, but this is what one actor brings. This is what another one brings. And the thing that Johnny Simmons brings to it that Miles teller doesn't. And not because it's not a bad choice at all. It's just two different people is Johnny Simmons brings this very sort like he wears fear on his face in such a, like, childlike, vulnerable way that works so well in the short. Yeah. And there's like even one scene where he's drumming along and he and J.K. Simmons is nodding and he gets like this look on his face, like I'm doing really good. And then it all turns into like, horror. But they brought that up. They love that. This was like the this actors take. And Johnny Simmons learned that drum part for whiplash ever. Never knowing drums learned it in one week. That's crazy. Yeah, I was in the commentary too. And they kept talking about that, that I just assumed he was an accomplished musician. That's really wild that he didn't know. And man, he nails it. Yeah, I like him and it's a different take on it. But I like that. I like seeing the variations and the. Yeah and the different performances. And then that guy, his, you know like the number one guy, that asshole. He's the same who's in whiplash. The number one on the on the chair. On the drums. Yeah. It's and was and that and that guy was actually the drum coach for Miles teller for the movie. Yeah, I love that I love that and he's a really nice guy in real life. He's, you know, asshole. That's so funny. So yes, go check out the short. But that does bring us to Damien Chazelle. First real sensation made for 3.3 million. It made 50.4 million. That is a huge profit margin. Whiplash premiered at Sundance in January 2014. We were here in good buzz about it. So October 2014. This was when I was living in LA. I saw it at Century City. And I mean, I think part of the reason I want to talk about first reactions, like the first time we saw it, one of the smartest things this movie does is decide when to cut to black and when to be done. And so many movies before and so many movies since. When that performance is done on stage, it would cut to black and then it's going to fade up to a five minute coda about where are they now? Everything's fine, whatever the hell it is, and you just don't need it if you, you know, Bob McKee adaptation. Wow them in the end and you've got them. And every single person who watches this movie, this is one of the most thrilling endings to a movie that I have ever seen. I'm using the ever word the last ten minutes. This fucking movie are so electrifying and just brilliant in so many different ways that when it boom, cuts to black and arguably like the peak of its moment, it's just brilliant. So you bounce out of the theater like I was bouncing out of it, and then I went, I mean, immediately went to my group of friends and I'm like, you have to go see this. You you just have to. And everyone did. And then you went back and rewatched it. And again, it was just I'm talking like indie. It wasn't, you know, this is a year of interstellar. Was it like that big of a movie? But this was an indie sensation, and it seemed like a lot of people loved it right away. And that love has really never waned. This movie still does so, so well. It it has stood the test of time and everyone still talks. I mean, because movie is now 12 years old, as is the recording date of this pod. And people talk about this movie with so much love as if it just came out. Yeah, I mean, you can show it to anyone any time. And it's it really holds up rewatching it for this. I mean, I, we watched it together after the Oppenheimer Oscars and we were all hung in the hotel. Yeah, we were just watching. We're like, man, it was man, I was almost lost a few times. Anyway, anyhow, what a fun night. Paid for it the next day. But rewatching it for this, I'm like, damn, like it. You know, we talk about it sometimes, but in 2014, the language that is used in this film was still somewhat normalized. I mean, it's it's harsh, but now these 12 years, like, people don't talk like this anymore for even when you're, like, insulting someone in a movie. Not really the shit that comes out at J.K. Simmons mouth. I'm like, this movie was nominated for screenplay. That's the he. And he was like, it is. It is crazy. It is extremely on PC. But again, that hasn't harmed its reputation at all because the people who were saying saying this on PC shit, they they would still say it today, like these are not people who are going to give a shit about political correctness. Fletcher doesn't give a fuck about anyone or anything. Well, and and also like what comes across is like, yes, you've all you've got the actual language that he uses, but it's just everything underneath it. Like this is just the, the, the, the, the menace that he carries. That's what you feel some of that, that dialog is hilarious. Some of those lines that he has to our generation are actually very funny to not everything. Like if you give it, he's going to try to turn on a fucking TV with it or something. Oh my god. Like there's something when he walks in and the guys like you walk into this room one more time, I will demolish you. Yeah, but the thing is, is like, that's the thing. Like you, you you're terrified of him. And he could have said anything. He could have said those, like they didn't need to be as colorful as the dialog was written. He could have said anything. And you would still feel everything behind Jakes. Yeah. Purpose and intent in his voice and his body. It's amazing. It's an amazing performance. It really is. It swept every award. He just waltzed right onto the stage to accept his Oscar as he should have. Ethan Hawke was nominated that year for boyhood. Love him. There was some great nomination. Edward Norton for Birdman. Great nominations. But this is like, come on now. No, there's been around. I mean, I saw him in Oz playing like an absolutely terrifying neo-Nazi in late 90s, early 2000. This is like the performance, I think, where he got back closest to that because, you know, you see him in Juno and the Spider-Man movies. It's not who I saw in Oz. Then getting back to Fletcher, I'm like, oh, I knew he was capable of this. The whole thing, the way he walks into a fucking room and the way Chazelle shoots it just boom, door slams open and we're just, you know, on the ground, following his feet. I've seen guys. I've seen people like this. I actually, I was, you know, I'm older now. I was thinking a lot watching the movie and what I would tolerate or not from people because I would never in, you know, one in life would be able to talk to me. Now the way that he talks to them, I would just start laughing or knowing me, I would just step. I'd get off and be like, what? Keep, keep talking your shit. I'll fucking we'll go right now. But what is the thing I loved most about rewatching it for this is this dude is thank God he only teaches music because this guy could be an amazing manipulator and he can manipulate kids into doing whatever he wanted. Thank God it's only playing instruments. But I mean, we're talking about grooming. It is an astounding even from the beginning. You know, like the the getting all cultural. Oh, so would you do you know what? Oh, and you're watching this. God. Jesus, man. Don't don't get comfortable. He's going to use all this against you. And just the constant fuck with the drill sergeant. Nice. And then getting to that, you know, the kind of grand statement of the film which was like in the top of the trailer, that the two most harmful language, two most harmful words in the English language are. Good job. I know I got the quote wrong, but it's just the the thesis of like his character in the movie landing there is brilliant and it's so ice cold and it's like I, you know, it's just fun to think about. Like, is that the way to greatness? Is it to abuse and beat into submission or is it positive reinforcement? Is it. Yeah. Go do it. Because I've, I've been in a lot of boxing gyms in my life and you got to you've got to coach people differently. You got to you got to talk to every actor differently. But yeah, I am not the person. Whenever I've been in some sort, if I'm training someone to fight or if I'm directing an actor, whatever it is that like, it's just a different style. But I personally believe that you do not get the best out of people berating them like that. But, you know, the the fact that this guy lives so strongly in this ethos of, no, that is what you have to do. It's just brilliant. And it makes for a very emotionally confusing movie. And I think some people watch it and they get to the end and they're like, well, what lesson was learned here that you basically have to, like, kill yourself to be, like accepted into greatness? Hey, maybe, I don't know, I'm not a great musician. Like, I don't know, I fucking it's it's a gnarly movie, man. The way he becomes so fucking arrogant, like with his girlfriend and that at the dinner table with his family, it's. You know, I'm being coached by Fletcher now, so I'm like, this hot shit, arrogant musician. I don't know, I really, really like this movie. Well, I do, I mean, what I was going to kind of piggyback off of what you're saying is, is like, you're really watching two people that have more in common with each other than the movie kind of directly posits. Because, yes, you are so thrown as an audience member by the tactics of this Fletcher, this this teacher who has this power and this manipulation. And you know, it's wrong. I have two friends that can't watch this movie because they have experiences with coaches and teachers. My dad does not really like whiplash for this reason, because I don't think he thinks it's necessarily like a good. I don't think Chazelle is saying this is a good way to coach people either, but I also know people who do have a little you can appreciate the movie, but who have a little trouble with that constant berating because, yes, coaches or whatever it is in their past and you're like, oh, I'm not, I'm not into this. But that's part of the movie is like, why does this kid take it? And he doesn't take it forever. He has a breaking point. Oh yeah. Many times. Yeah, yeah, yeah, many times. But this is the thing that's so beautiful about the writing is that. And this is why I was going to say it. I'm just going to say it because I'll find my way here. This is my favorite ending to any movie ever. I thought long and hard. Shit. Oh my God. Yes. I've ever I've used that. It was one of my favorites. But I mean, wow, that is the DHT. We're not the new Hollywood film Project. Jesus Christ, we're going to have to hold on to that one, because I might have to. All right. That's that's cool. That's great. I mean, there are some there's some all timer, but. All right, so you took my hot take and just fucking launch it in. I'm not going to say you're wrong, but I'm just because I do think I mean, if we came up with the best endings so far this century, this is definitely in like the top three for me. It's just it just does everything right. And one of the smartest things it does is when it cuts to black, just trust. It's like when you stop it. The peak movies don't do that. Movies always hit the peak. And then there's. Oh, you calm down. You calm. We see stuff. Not this. It's fucking genius. Wow. So ever Jesus and I and I thought really hard about whether or not I was going to commit to saying this on this episode, because I've felt like this ever since the first time I saw it. And I was like, surely that can't be like that. I can't just be so floored by the first time I saw this movie. The ending hits you, but I've seen this movie eight, nine times. I've seen a ton ton like in and I think I think of stalker, I think of, I think of inception. I mean as well I, I've thought about all these movie endings and at the end of the day. I'm being honest with myself. There is no ending that does it for me more than this. And but now I don't know because there isn't necessarily text or anything that pauses this. We can all assess what we can from the ending, but the reason why I am so moved by the ending is because when you look at these two people who are really the audience is thrown by the evil doings of this character, but we're not actually realizing that this Miles teller performance, this Andrew Neiman, is so much more alike. And when you get this ending where now you have got this guy performing on a level that Fletcher sees and he goes, oh my God, this is it, this is it, this is it. And when they come to that, I meet where there's the closing on the eyes. My take is that they understand each other. Oh, yeah. Whether that's right or wrong. And they're both reaching their absolute potential. This is who I am as a performer. This is who I am as a teacher. This is what I expect and want from the world. This is what I expect and want from myself. It's all there and it's met. And then it comes crashing down that crescendo. The first time I saw this movie, I was with my friend Brendan. He got us into the Editors Guild, and so we saw this with a bunch of other fucking editors in a small screening room, and it was very hoity toity, like there was a there was an air in the, in the, in the, in the arena, in the theater. And but that ending habit I left out of my seat, I left, I jumped out of the chair, and I had to sit back down to kind of compose myself. When. Yeah, when it cuts to black, you have like a few beats. It's not even a second before written and directed by Damien Chazelle pops up. These are very, very important moments in a movie. What you do with that, those five seconds or so before you, when you cut to black because I didn't know that was going to be done. And then it's a do that, you know, smaller score that it's just the credits. And I went, Jesus Christ. I've always taken the ending as we're very close up on them. We never see Fletcher smile that wide in a wide shot ever so ever on his eyes. And my read is he's looking at Fletcher going, did I do it like did smile is you fucking did it. We are here. I've got my new guy like the student that he's emotional about who's died. Like, you're my new him. I've got my bird. Let's fucking kick it. Here we go. And then that just slowly tracking it. I'll tell her and he looks right at us. Boom. It's genius. So, whiplash. Let's say I've seen whiplash. I don't know, 12 times. Maybe I've seen this ending more than a hundred because I've watched I've watched on YouTube over and over and over, especially before the before I own the Blu ray. It just makes it. It's such a thrilling way to end the whole beat. Well, I'm going to say this now, actually, because we've dedicated some good, good discussion of whiplash. You dropped a fucking crazy hot take. Our next episode on the main feed is going to be a whiplash deep dive. So we are going to like, we're going to even go. We're gonna go way more. Yeah, way more into this. But I never want to give, you know, movie the the Short shrift in a director profile. So thank you for that take because you've made it worth it here. But yeah, we are going to get into whiplash more because I want to break down like in our deep dive that that ending kind of beat by beat, everything that's going on. Because I mean, I don't know why it means so much to me. I wrote a whole list on my blog like years ago, probably because of this movie. Top ten scenes of parents being proud of their kid being wow. And it is 10s the cutaway to Paul Reiser in that doorway, and we get this crazy wide shot from, like, we get his POV first and you see Andrew like on stage. And then when it cuts the reason face, there's not too big of a change, but there is enough of a subtle change that reads, Holy fuck, he's right. He is that good. He is amazing. I've never really given him the attention. And just like, look at my boy go like, I get chills, I can feel my voice kind of cracking a little bit. It's just it's so moving to me. And then of course, of course. Andrew, what do you doing, man? I mean, the genuine, like, just like excitement in his voice and then fixing the fucking symbol and then. Oh, that's going to put his hand on his face and like, taking his fucking jacket off and like, throwing it down and then queuing up the band and like also if you want it. Not that I've ever tried this yet, right. I've done this like 20 times. Go with the beer and do what J.K. Simmons is doing when he's like lifting his hand up for tempo. You look like a fucking idiot. You look like a maniac. He does not. He is like a fucking animal just locked in, like. And he, if you watch it as many times as I have, teller is ahead of him. Teller starts doing stuff and you see Fletcher being like, yeah, it's just like he's like, he is not conducting now tellers. And then he. And then he takes control, you know, slow it down. And then he takes control. And then and that satisfaction when they get to the slowest beat, the look of contentment on Fletcher's face of like, oh man. I mean, they're like, they're this is jazz, baby. They're they're making they're making musical love. That's the only way I can describe this. Like, they're just it's everything is coming together and it's. The whole thing is fucking brilliant. It's fucking brilliant. Oh, and and it's a little precursor also to our deep dive episode. I actually weirdly, kind of really got obsessed. So silly. I got really into the scene of of The Girlfriend and Neiman on their first date. Oh yeah. There. Yeah, there's like the pizza shop, right. The pizza shop. Yeah. There's that is a very, very small little masterclass on how to really shoot. Well, a classic scene of just first master. Master. Wide shot. Take close up this or that in the dialog in the script, the cuts in there. I was just watching and tracking everything. I just wrote it. I just broke down the whole entire fucking scene. I go, this is just fucking. It's so simple. And I think every director can just learn. Sometimes you don't need to do anything than just the basics. Stick to what actually works, but you let the script do it. Like there's things in there, what's important to him, what's important to him, what's important to her? When do you do the closest? When do you pull back? Oh, it's not dissimilar to when you're actually really talking to someone and there's like a disconnect. And I was like, oh yeah, we know we're going to pull back now because they're so, so we'll I'll get into that on the deep dive too. Okay, I love that. I mean, yes, keep in mind when you're watching whiplash, they shot this in 19 days in Los Angeles. It takes place in New York. They did like a day of pickup shots for New York street shots. That's it. I mean, they are. I don't know how you do this in 19 days. I don't know how many cameras they have. No clue. But even when I'm watching that end, I'm like, there's so much coverage here. Like if you had if you had one camera, I genuinely I don't know how you do it if you have 2 or 3 going, which usually can't for this small of a movie, but just getting all the different cuts, I mean, yes, this went on to be nominated for five Oscars. I mean, again, $3.3 million movie. Like there were huge movies in 2014 and this this comes in wins supporting actor. Of course, that's a big award. Editing is a huge award. Tom Cross wins. It absolutely deserves serves. You know, you got Birdman in there, which is hiding a lot of cuts to make it look like one cut. And then you got boyhood in there, which is kind of organically making 12 years flow. And they give it to whiplash, big statement and then sound mixing. I got a huge kick out of the fact that it was not even nominated for sound editing, but it won sound mixing. I don't even I'm glad they made that one award. I never have to explain it anymore. It's so nice. Jesus. But sometimes it was so important. I know I'm like, I know, but it's like, I don't know whatever. Yes. So that is a I'm glad we went in on whiplash there. But yeah, we're going to have fun breaking the town. It's going to get its own full episode, and we're going to be able to talk about all of its brilliance in this crazy hot take of Favorite Ending ever. I'm going to this will give me the time because we're not recording it today. We're going to wait a little bit. I'm going to go through, think of your favorite movies and all this stuff, and then I won't. I'm not going to, like, call you out, just be like, you're wrong. I'll just ask. I'll be like, okay, did you consider this one title card in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood? Dot dot. It's a great one. Oh, you know, it's a it's. Don't get me wrong, I have thought a lot about this. And that is, it is. But yes, please do challenge because I would actually love to be like, oh fuck, I think that's that's it, but I really don't. I've thought this for 12 years. It's never really kind of left because I thought about when I first saw it, I go, this can't be my favorite of all time. I think it is. I think it is. I wouldn't say it, I love it, I said it, I meant it here to represent it. Good. You better because I'm coming at you. Okay? I keep looking, getting distracted. I keep looking at my movies. That's how I called out Rudy so quick, because I'm trying to find, like, funny ones to call out. I was just going to say we haven't even read talked about it. I can't bring it up right now. Talk about later. What? Rudy. Oh, no. Close. Rocky. How I slandered it. Oh, God. Yeah, that. My hell, you gave it back to me. And then I didn't even I was I was too nice to you in the moment. I should have fucking bit your head. I should have just gone. You were. You were like, mean to Rocky. Yeah, I know, but you I we breeze right over Lawrence of Arabia and you're like, oh, yeah, that movie is not for me. And I'm like, what? So he's allowed to just a Lord Saravia. But I'm not allowed to like Rocky that much. I'm doing it again. I'm gonna we're losing listeners like by the fucking. We're gaining. It's falling. Keep gaining on me. Gaining on this next one is interesting. And I'm going to start because, yeah, in October 2016. I am very sorry. December 2016. I'm very excited to see his next film, La La Land, noting that and if we're ranking as the musical genre is probably my least favorite, I will see any movie. I don't really like animated movies either, but I'll I'll go and see anything, but I'm going, okay? And he is not holding back. He's like, this is a traditional like breakout into song musical. It premieres at Venice. It's getting really good feedback. So I see it and I it won me over. I was absolutely mesmerized by La La Land the first time I saw it in the Hollywood Arclight dome, which is still dormant, which is a goddamn crime to cinema right there in LA. We, you know, we've talked about it a little bit like as, as we've gone on, but I was honestly quite stunned how well it held up for me when I rewatched for this, I was like, man, this thing just really feels like 2015 LA because that's when they shot it. And that was like my peak time in Los Angeles. And it really does just all the places they're going to, all this stuff. But in a little bit I'm going to, you know, describe the movie, how we feel about it. The thing that I will remember most is that the first time you saw this, you did not like it at all. And this became we had known each other for like about two years when this movie came out. Immediately, our biggest film disparity, which it stayed at for like a while, and we can go through some other ones, but I kind of want to hear, I just remember you not liking it and then making fun of me for liking it. And then like one of our first episodes of this podcast, favorite scores and soundtracks, you listed it and I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? I thought you hated it. So I'm interested to hear where you stand with La La Land today. All right. First. All right. First, I, I have an allergy to musicals. I understand, I do. I am going to go harder in even what you said. I don't like them straight up I, I have not seen a musical in theaters since La La Land. And there's there's so many. There has been a bunch, if you think about it, there's been a lot. I haven't seen any of the wicked movies I haven't seen. Oh, okay. You know, I did see wicked like there's been I can't draw them to memory because I don't care about them. Kind of like you, and I just don't. So I remember exactly what you were saying. And also, we did see this in theaters together. It was my second time. Yes. Yes, I believe it was your second time seeing it. Yeah. But, and I saw it in theaters with my mom, so I saw twice in theaters when it came out. And so the first time I saw it, you are correct. I did not like it, but I remember not being able to stop thinking about it. And you admitted that to me. You did. And, and and then I saw it with my mom and the. And now I have seen this movie. I think I've actually seen no joke. I think I've actually seen it like 6 or 7 times. This might have been my eighth viewing. Yeah. And yeah. So here is I, and I remember I didn't make fun of you for liking it. I made fun of you for calling it your number one movie of the year. That was it. Still. I mean, it's still would be. I don't I mean, maybe now everybody wants some as close, but obviously 2016 was La-La land versus moonlight, which that's just a marketing thing. Like those two directors are friends in real life. They kind of came up together. They didn't. But when we were talking about those two, there wasn't, you know, I, I respect moonlight and everything, but there are movies that I don't know, I'd have to look like Manchester by the sea. Yes, I like that a lot, but a lot it just I'm going to go into why it won me over. But I wanted to talk about our discourse first. And. But I'll answer your question. Where do I stand on La-La land today? I really do enjoy this movie when it's not doing any musical numbers. But that being said, there's too much for this movie that I really like. I, I really, really like it, and there really aren't too many musical numbers in here that kind of get me, because a lot of them are, in a lot of ways, the diegetic. When she is singing here's to the the ones that dream at the end. I mean, that's that's like one of the reasons why she won the Oscar. Yeah. It's beautiful. Anytime that he's playing, like when they're doing all that, it's really just sort of some of like just the kind of classic musical numbers that kind of get in my way. But I the film making of this movie is so fucking good. I love the colors, I love the composition, I love the, the the feel of Los Angeles, this movie. You're exactly right. When you were saying I miss this version of LA, quite frankly, I have not left LA and I miss this version of LA. I mean, when I come to this same city, it is not. It doesn't even look. And this is like a whimsical movie. They're not shown like the Deeks, the no. Yeah. Dark, seedy sides. But even the the the brightness of it, like, it's just it doesn't look like that anymore. It just doesn't. It doesn't, it doesn't. It's hard to kind of find the whimsy. You can, you can. It's different though. It's different there. I don't I can't really put my finger on what why it's different but it is different. So that being said, where do I stand? I like this movie. You know why it's different? Because the air got dirty and the sex got clean. I'm glad that's from Point Break. I'm glad you like. Oh, okay. I was taking a trap. Okay. Shot. Good. I'm. Yeah. I figured by, like, the way we were texting. You liked it a little more now, but this is what I'll say. If you're going to force me to watch any musical, I will always pick La La Land as my number one choice. What about South Park? Bigger. Longer. Uncut. It's different. It's a cartoon. I don't I don't lump them in this because it's a it's a different reality. Like like it's a whole cartoon. I can buy them singing and dancing in a cartoon because it's not real. It's already not real. La La Land might be like my favorite musical ever. Honestly, I think it is not like I think I have seen all the movies he is referencing, at least the American ones, like I, I've seen all the movies he's referencing, but I've really studied the American ones because a lot of them won Best Picture, like An American in Paris. Gigi. Okay, so going back to the musical number thing, just and then I just want to ask you one. So like when they're out there, you know, in the lookout at sunset that just doesn't in tap dancing that's that, does that, like, annoy you or like or is this do nothing for you because so and addendum to the question, I guess the thing is, even if I'm not on board for musical number, even if I'm not on board with like his voice, which I don't think is as strong as hers, the fact that there is 0.00 digital effects in that shot is fucking astounding. The fact that they went out there night after night and did that. I think what we see is like the fourth or fifth take, and it's all in one shot, and that sky is real behind them, like there's no CGI, and if there was, it would look so bad. Maybe not in 2016, but in 2026 it would look like shit and it's not there. And that is why it holds up when he's out on the pier with that couple dancing with the wife. Oh my god. So yeah, the actual craft of the filmmaking it like supersedes the it doesn't matter. It's better than the genre. Yeah, that's exactly correct. That's why I can kind of stomach those parts because of all of that. And even for exactly like you're saying, like Gosling's voice is not that strong. It's really not. I think in some ways, I actually that particular scene you're talking about. I actually do like that scene a little bit more because of that, because I feel like that's more like to me, that's sort of a believable number, because I could actually see a guy, even if the music wasn't playing in the background, he could be singing that to himself and then dancing with the girl. It's it's it's a subtle enough thing to where that's not exactly weird, like, you know, and then he's so charming that if there was just a guy singing on the pier and he kind of takes your wife's hand and starts dancing with her there, it's so it's so light and not. I mean, because he's really just playing with his hat and doing his thing. I kind of I'm that is probably like my max level of what I find to be a realistic musical number. So then the party, then you're like, give me the fuck out of here. His face is changing badly. The yeah, the party, the the whole thing outside in the very beginning with the dancing in the cars. But that is so fucking impressive that they just pulled that. Oh, yeah. That is insane. Let me say the song maybe isn't like my favorite, but the fact that he had the balls to do that for like what, a few weekends. And it literally stopped traffic and it was pounding sweat and they pulled it off like it's crazy. As much as I don't like musicals, I respect them. So that goes for all music. The form. I could never do it. I could never even imagine. That's very fair to say because I do too. I respect all animation to animations. It's a lot longer than, you know, just picking up a camera, so I respect it. So yeah, we're not coming. We're not like, this objectively sucks. We're not saying at all no personal taste. No no no no. Yes. It's just taste. And I literally cannot stress that enough. I do not think that musicals are bad like that. Say they're they shouldn't even be allowed because they suck. No, I just don't like them. But the respect I have for them because that is like choreography, dance. It's matching it all, doing it all. It's just the fun that everyone seems to have with it. I just don't. But I respect that opening. But I'll tell you what happens to me that opening starts and then they all start getting out of their cars. I go, what are we doing? Why is everyone getting out of the fucking cars? Okay, what is a band doing in that fucking truck? Why does everybody know what this song is? This is stupid. And that's where I land. And that's my reaction. I get it, it's. It's their version of an action scene. That is how years ago, my dad explained it to me. He's like, these were our action set pieces where, you know, you break from reality in an action set piece, but I so I get it, but I absolutely I also understand everything that you're saying I do. It is this is all a matter of personal taste. That's it. It's it's what it is. But again, if you have if there is one, if this this is my favorite musical. Like, yes it is because I can sit there. And I also think that the loveliness, the delight, the whimsy of this movie, it is it has stood the test of time. It is now officially ten years since this movie I do. I did find the magic in this movie. Even the first time I saw it, I just couldn't really get on grasp it. But when I realized that I couldn't stop thinking about it, I go, that's what it is. There's a magic and god damn it, that ending. Oh, okay. So yeah, we're here we go. So, you know, I mean spoilers. If you haven't seen Lala land, it is ten years old. It was a big movie and you know, that's that. Okay, here's why I like this movie so much. And I really paid attention this time. La-La land is not a movie about two people discovering a life affirming love. This is not a movie about a great love story. These people are together for just a few months. These are two people who meet at transitional points in their lives. Their paths diverge for a few months, they get romantically involved, and they make the very mature decision to split. To me, this is very, very, very real because these you hear when you live in LA, you hear these romances where someone just like completely I lost some friends for a few months, are completely taken off their feet and then they, like, come walking back and they're like, yeah, she moved or like, or whatever it is. And the dream is like shattered. That's what this movie means to me. So I counted. Listen to me. The numbers of La La Land, they kiss in this film five times. In each kiss is a peck. There is no hard core romantic embrace. We never see them in bed together. The first time they kiss is at the 58 minute mark. They say I love you. Once in a whisper at the 61 minute mark as they're dancing, she touches on it again. You know I'm always going to love you toward the end. That is not the same. They start having conflict at 65 minutes in first kiss, 58 minutes, conflict 65 minutes. They are drifting, actively drifting apart. At 72 minutes, their breakup fight is at 80 minutes in the movie. So this movie for 22 minutes, that's all we are getting of them like officially hardcore together that I love that about it. I love the movie. Is not making some grand statement of like, this is the greatest love in these people's lives. It is not. They both have different passions that are right now more intense than him dropping everything and going to Paris, which it does kind of show in the end. And I love that. What if what if you would have dropped everything and gone to Paris? Sure, you may end up back in this jazz bar with her as your wife, but that jazz bar is not yours. You don't own it. So you know, it's all it's about. All these, like, diverging things. And I think, yeah, the decision for them to split and then maintain it that way and just have it be the last thing Gosling says in the movie is welcome to Seb's. And it is like it's I think it's so beautiful. And that's the real when when they spot each other. That's the real moment for me. Like going off in the fantasy sequence is great too, but when they see each other in just that shared thing of like, yeah, we had a good few months together and you'll always mean something in my heart and I'll always mean something in yours. But that, yeah, that is that is why I love the movie so much. It's ending. That is why I love it. And going back and paying attention, I was like, these two people are. I mean, they don't make out the kisses are pecs. They're these quick little pecs again. Never see him in bed. Never, never anything. I think all that is intentional. I don't think this is meant to be like a great love story. I mean, I think it's a very LA love story. That's what I mean. I think it is. And I think that, I mean, the movie kinda was they shot it for 30 million. It made 504 million worldwide. It was a massive hit. It was a huge hit. But that was always my read on it that this no, this is not like the next great. This is not a Casablanca love story, which is a movie they reference in it. Not at all. This is like just a very LA love story. Yes. But, you know, I think the thing that's kind of transcends what you're talking about is because, yes, like that is actually like if you even look at the script, like, even like that awesome fight scene that they have with the green, the dinner scene. Yeah. She's just talking logistics. She's like, well, if you're on tour for like the next seven months and then like, yeah, these are actually like conversations that, you know, two people that have when they are in like these very sort of transitional phases. Because I agree with you. I do like the love story for the exact same reason. But what transcends it is the chemistry between Ryan Gosling and the Stone, because everyone else who's not tracking the literal logistics of the situation is falling in love with the two of them. Yep. So it works so well because you've got both now. Because you actually couldn't. This movie wouldn't work if you didn't fall in love with their love. Yeah, to some degree, it's just when you break it down to your point, you're exactly right. It's not a Casablanca love story, but it feels like it is something that everyone falls in love with because that's the whimsy of the movie. My ex-girlfriend was sobbing at the end. SOB. I mean, I was too. The first time I saw it, I was really knocked out by it, and she was just like, why can't they just be together? Why can't they? Just like it was like she didn't didn't they could have made it work, you know, like and that's also part of it. But I the thing that I always like, you know, me existential is my number one thing. Always if you can find a way to cinematically ask what if you've got a fan in Nick Doe? So I'm telling you what. And it's a huge swing and they really pull it off like it. Just all with no dial in the way. Even the way John Legend comes over, this immediately turns around and walks away. Oh yeah. When you're watching that, it's all about actively chasing her dream. It's all following her dream. So yes, I love that extended fantasy sequence. And it's like, would your life be better in this alternate universe? Also, go watch that. Look how she's like cuddling him in the jazz bar. She's not cuddling Tom Everett Scott, you know. So it's I also had some fun with the five years later thing, because that kid looks to be a over one year old and I'm like, well, you kind of moved a little fast here, lady. That is one thing that kind of led me to believe. I don't think this Ryan Gosling Sebastian is the great love of her life. I really don't, I don't think, and I don't think that she is his. I mean, they it's just they they helped each other more than anything. They helped each other realize each other's potential and like, would she, you know, probably would not have driven back from her home and to take the audition that, like, gets her all this and he probably would have called the club chicken on a stick and maybe it bombed. You know what if what if, what if, what if all that and to not communicate that with dialog and just like he's on stage, she's leaving a polite nod message received. And we don't even fucking cut. We fade out, we fade out. And then they give us the end title card. But I yeah, I think it's really, really special, quite profound. And it really, really knocks me out. And I just that was when I went, man, not only does this guy know how to end a movie, he's he knows how to be sentimental at times. But that then very harshly realistic and unsentimental and like, yeah, this is the reality. Most relationships you are in, in your life and most of them do. I mean, you don't. Maybe you get, you know, they say the one there's that one that last forever. But you know, people get divorced, blah, blah, blah. But you know what I'm saying? Like most of we have in our life end however long they last, I don't know. But yeah, I think it captures all that beautifully. And there is a theme that I think Babylon will get to it. But this is kind of tracking like Damien's like as as a filmmaker, as an artist, there is a real great line that he tows between sentimental and complete cynicism. Absolutely. It's one of the things I love most about him. Yes. And Babylon really dives into cynicism, but this is one where he's giving you that line. There is a very cynical side to all of this, but you're kind of wrapped up in the in the how how can you turn cynicism into sentimentality? La la land. Yeah, yeah, you can say the same. I mean, think of how cynical a read on whiplash is at the end. Like, oh, you greatness. After being fucking beaten into submission and almost dying in a car accident to, like, get here. I mean, yeah, you can that can be read is a very cynical ending. Even though maybe whiplash too is becoming the biggest, you know, jazz drummer of all time. I don't know. And there is one thing I do to kind of talk about some of the because I just want to get this in because I don't think we'll get it in any other time. I've call it the Chazelle whip pan oh so good. And they're real. They're not. Yeah. In faked and editing. Yes, he does this in every single fucking movie. He did it in the guy in Madeleine. It's that scene in la la la in particular, when Emma Stone is dancing and it pans to Ryan Gosling playing piano back and forth, back and forth. And I mean, it's not like he's reinventing the wheel. It's not like he's the first director to do this. But you can tell that this is an example of what Damien Chazelle loves. Like he loves that idea. Pair it with the music. Beat, rhythm, beat, rhythm, moment, moment, go, go, and then keep it going. Like it's just a flowing thing that he has that I just love that. That's like a stamp. It's like a it's a he's made it. He's made it a part of his like style. Now I think he's done too many times not to. Yeah. And you can see him directing those scenes in the making of and he like taps the camera operator on the shoulder and when to do it. Yeah. That's it's fantastic. Yeah I love those two. And they're real again he's not using an editing trick. And that's crazy because he's actually accounting for the delay that it's going to take for the cameraman to make sure he's on beat. So Chazelle is actually like clocking his own time to make sure that he's factoring in like that, however many milliseconds of a delay it is for the person to recognize, okay, turn okay. This like, that's that's pretty wild. It is. I'm glad. Yes, I'm glad you have a different appreciation for it. But yeah, I mean, there's just so much about it. How are you going to be a revolutionary when you're such a traditionalist? Yeah. This is I love that line. That's John legends character says that to Ryan Gosling. And yes, that's one character saying it to another. But I think that's a lot of what this movie is. Yeah, I think that's a lot of Damien Chazelle. I think that's a line for him because he is a traditionalist when it comes to jazz, when it comes to musicals. But this is a guy who wants to be an artist unto his own. Babylon is what ultimately caps it off to being like, all right, fuck tradition. We're going to have piss, poop, everything. We're going to do it all. But I think that is a line that equates to me. Damien Chazelle is an artist. How are you going to be a revolutionary? How are you going to make your own mark? If what you really love the most is kind of based in here? How do you take what you love, turn it into something that is completely, uniquely your own? I, in a lot of ways think that Babylon is his absolute. This is who I really am, but we'll get to it. Yes, Gosling. Gosling is so good at these reaction moments. Yeah. And he and he peppers it all throughout his performance. Just the crew he is when he has to play the songs, he doesn't want to play at the piano. There's a nice way to say that, Karen. You're a nice way to say that. Karen. Like when, when when Emma Stone tells him to play Iran and he's just looking at her like just this subtext. It's almost it's almost too much. It's almost going into cartoon land, but it's a perfect place for it because we're in a musical. So he can kind of get away with kind of going into those spots. But I think my favorite is actually when he's at that first rehearsal where he's playing piano again with John Legend, shows up in the suit, they're playing some nice music. He's kind of into it. And then they turn on like the crazy, like effects. Yeah. And you just see him his whole entire body. He just stops what he's doing. Looks all around the room has like, these, like, gestures. Doesn't know what to do with his hands and then kind of goes back like he's just registering everything. There are certain things that he does as an actor that comedically just register in these very unique ways. And I think, I think while Leonard is a very good performance for him, I think overall I think he's top notch, even if he can't really sing all that well. Yeah, I didn't remember how like he's his character is very quiet. Like just it's the Gosling performance where like, I think the only time he yells is he's like, what? When she says she's not going to. It's like the only time he really raises his voice. But otherwise, yeah, he's like kind of this, like, cynical but also romantic, just wise. Who's his passion beaten down? Yeah, his passion is there, but there's no way for him to claim it because he's so tied to, like, this one thing. It has to be like this location of my club and everything. But yeah, it's a great characterization. I love him. My favorite Gosling scene in the whole entire movie is his apartment scene. It's his opening apartment scene where he's having a phoenix rising from the ashes. That's my favorite thing in the whole movie. He's he's just so great in it and goes to that woman who plays his sister, Rosemary DeWitt. Oh my God, she has my whole heart. That's Rachel and Rachel getting married. I love her, she's in that one scene and they just knock it out of the park. Oh yeah. Boom, boom boom, right back and forth to each other. Oh, that's so good. Yes, I'm. I've always liked this movie, but I had a very pleasant time rewatching it and just. I really love the way it looks. I mean, it did win six Oscars at one best director. Youngest winner ever won Emma Stone or first Oscar for best actress, which she kind of just did it. Like there wasn't really too much competition that year for. It didn't really seem like it just seemed like she's going to walk away with it. Cinematography at one, which is good. Score and song both went to Justin Hurwitz and production design very wisely, they gave her production design. Here's a big question. That's six wins. Should La-La land have won seven Oscars like we all thought it did for five minutes? Shouldn't have won Best Picture or should moonlight? If one, what would you have awarded it to? And really don't consider any of the other nominees because frankly, no one else did. It was just between those two. So if you're giving it Best Picture 2016 here, are you giving it to are you saying. Am I in 2016? I have to award it, right? Because. Right. Because there's clearly like one that stood the test of time and one that maybe hasn't. Now which one hasn't? I don't think people still talk about La La Land in a very, very positive way. Not that anyone would talk about moonlight in a bad way. I just don't hear anyone ever talk about moonlight. I don't either, and I think that part of that's because of Jenkins. I don't think he's I frankly liked If Beale Street Could Talk More Than Moonlight, but like, no one saw that movie and then he hasn't. I don't think he's done a live action movie since he did a series for, I think, Amazon that I didn't see. I think it's Underground Railroad. I'm sure it's great, but I haven't seen it. And then what do you do, like a Lion King, that live action thing. So. Oh, he did that. Come on back. Yes he did. And it's like what's what's going on here? Whereas Chazelle has gone on to take, you know, he's only made two additional films since La La Land. But they've made their mark, their cinematic mark, for better or worse, in some way. But yeah, Barry Jenkins isn't, I don't know, I hope he's working on a new, like, you know, actual movie. Let me. Yeah. So the last movie he directed was Mufasa The Lion King. He did that one. So I mean, he did moonlight, If Beale Street Could Talk and Mufasa The Lion King did. There you go. So we'll see if he has something to go. But I mean, yes, people do love moonlight. They do. And part of that when of it winning Best Picture, like legitimately winning, helped cement its legacy. But I mean, I think I think at the end of the day, I think I'd go la la land. I like moonlight, I like moonlight a lot. I think I probably liked moonlight more in 2016 than I liked La La Land in 2016. I think you did. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, I also I mean, you are talking about everything that La La Land is and everything that it pulls off successfully in terms of like scope and ambition. It's kind of hard not to award that. Yeah. Like everything about what the land worked. And that's a hard feat to pull off. Yes. Now, another extremely hard feat to pull off, you know. La La Land, like I said, was a massive hit. He wins best director. He probably could have made literally any movie he wanted to. Probably could have made Babylon. If I'm, you know, he probably wanted to get his reps in as a director, but I think he could have taken anything. And he decides to make First Man and a biopic about Neil Armstrong, biopic of sorts, not written by him, which is interesting. He farmed out the writing to Josh singer, who had just won an Oscar for writing spotlight. But I think that's very important that he didn't attempt to write this himself. Chazelle I mean, because it was going to be a big undertaking, kind of talked about this in the beginning. But, you know, now they're giving him 70 million to make it. And it you know, it makes 45 million in the US, 60 million worldwide, which usually your worldwide numbers are offsetting your marketing costs. So this is not a success. It was not a success. It was not. Critics liked it, but people just didn't show up for it. And then again, I'll wait till the end to talk about the Oscars and its lack of reception because we already mentioned it. But like, it's just it's almost like it's not as bad as Zodiac because it did get nominated for some and it won one at one Visual effects. But it's I, I don't know, I have so many things to say about First Man, but I wanted to hit you with a prompt early so we already know. Okay. Did this movie break Ryan Gosling? You know what you mean? Break? Okay, I in my opinion, I think he expected an Oscar for this and maybe could be in pretty good contention to win. I think Chazelle expected to be nominated. I think it Best Picture was their screenplay. All this stuff when it didn't get any of that, it just just. I'm going to do two lists for you, okay? That's all this is. Two movie lists list one. Blue Valentine, crazy stupid. Love drive, the Ides of March, place Beyond the Pines, Only God Forgives, the Big Short, Nice Guys, la La Land, song to song. Blade runner 2049. Here's list two. The Gray Man Barbie, the fall Guy project Hail Mary list one were the eight years before First Man list. Two are the eight years after First Man, now Barbie massive hit. He was nominated for an Oscar project, Hail Mary. He might fucking get nominated for that. People are obsessed and flipping out over this movie. I'm not the fall guy made money. I'm not saying these movies aren't big, but he is not challenging himself in the way that he used to. Is that because of First Man? Or should I just calm down and say no, he has a family. He got married, he had kids, you know, he just wants to make money and maybe not do crazy, wild shit. I don't know, but it just seems like a big inflection point for his career. To me. It really does. Well, it's a good point. It's a good point. I don't think he's tried this hard in a movie since I, you know, I think this is very unusual Ryan Gosling performance. I mean, in a good way. In a great way. Yeah, yeah. No, this this is a, this is a whole entire different beast for him. Yeah. And one that I think he really pulls off in a phenomenal way. Well, and I also do know he did sign on to do this before he worked with Damien Chazelle in La La Land. So yes, this is true. Yeah. And in the very few interviews that I have seen with Ryan Gosling when it came to this, he took this very seriously. Yes, yes. He really, really, kind of found the heart of what needed to be done here, which was to really sort of. And it's not unlike what Neil Armstrong did. Neil Armstrong, from everything that the movie posits. And for whatever one says, there did seem to be a feeling that because of all the sacrifices that were made, the people that had died, the the amount of effort that was being put in, Neil took it personally to just see it through. It became, with each new tragedy, more reason to make sure that this gets done and the toll that that kind of takes on your psyche, the toll that takes on your family. I think Ryan really connected with that. And that was the mission statement. That was what needed to be served, was like, I need to make sure like how Neil made sure this job was done. We understand this was what it was at the core of this person. It's hard to say. I mean, especially like when you look at a level of success like he's had and had up until this point. It's but it is very interesting. I think, you know, Ken is Ken is an interesting one to kind of put into this category because I think now Ken will probably go down in the legacy of Ryan Gosling for whether, however you want to grade that performance, Ken will be an iconic performance that will never not be talked about, however, very, very true. And you but you look at the fun that he's having and you look at the fun he's having in first in in the nice guys. He absolutely is. And projectile Mary same thing. That is a man who knows how to have fun. But yes, you are right, there has not been a dramatic performance that Ryan Gosling has done since then. It's true. It's just true. You kind of break it down. Eight, eight and eight. Yeah. Just something jumped out at me. And I mean, I rewatched this. We were talking about this after we recorded an episode. So I actually watched First Man before we decided to do Chazelle a few months ago and then rewatch it for this, watch it with his commentary and Josh singer's commentary. And I mean, kind of the whole time. I'm just wondering, why didn't this do better? I still wonder that, I mean, two hours and 20 minutes is not like back in the day. That might have been that might have seemed long, but it's it's not by today's standards. And I'm wondering, did the did the home scenes lose people like because the, the NASA scenes are so just remarkable and like the action is great that the home stuff I, I don't I don't know I wrote a little review on letterbox and I basically asked that question. I'm like, what turned audiences away from this and why has it never been embraced like never? It still hasn't in the eight years since. Not. I don't ever hear anyone talking about this. Like, these movies are often successful because of the space scenes, and this one is so realistic. It's so boots on the ground. This movie does not use a single shot of CGI. It's all these giant LED screens that they had. I've worked on those before. They're fucking incredible. You can bring anything up on them, you know, do the scale correctly. So thank God this did win the the Oscar for visual effects. Deservedly so, but it looks great. It's acted perfectly. I just it's just one of those movies where I really don't understand why people just don't talk about it. It never got a cultural cachet at all on a film making level. I kind of might argue in some ways this might be his best. It's funny you say that because I was thinking that too. It's not my favorite movies made, but the no. The same is like truly remarkable. Like the grainy how it's super 16 millimeter until they get on the moon. Then he switches to Imax and that amazing shot when they put the hatch down that, I mean, this is why I wish the movie was popular, because I want this rereleased in Imax. Like I would go back to see it, but it's not. I don't know if that's ever going to happen. Well, let's first talk about the opening. Let's do it. Yes. Jesus. The opening of this fucking movie. I remember seeing it in theaters, and I did get to see it in Imax. Well, I don't know. I saw it theaters and I thought he was going to fucking die. And I'm like, this is the alarm. So that's how nervous I was. I was like, what the fuck? Altitude rising lot more, right? Oh, you're bouncing off the atmosphere. And if you really. This is why I say filmmaking, because all that you are seeing is him in the cockpit. You can see outside the windows. You can only see from his bird's eye cockpit perspective. And then you get a couple very, very couple of mounted onto the ship that he is on, shots of the wing and like so you can see like how the wing is flapping in the air. Yes. And then you hear the radio console of what's going on and you see the dials. This is all you're seeing, this is all you're fucking seeing. And the whole entire time it's sound, it is the visuals, it's the shaking of the camera. But I have never my fear of flying. This is the exact reason as to why the everything that this opening sequence does and you do like, and very seldom throughout the entire movie until we get to the moon. You do not see a lot of shots from space at all. Yeah, I think very intentionally. Yeah, very intentionally, because we're not there yet. We haven't gotten there. We don't really have the right to shoot from here because the whole entire point is getting there. So it's all about what is actually happening. And that's why you are hearing sound in space when they're up there doing like the like the first Gemini eight mission is because we're only hearing what they're hearing from the inside. You are hearing the metal? Yeah. Completely being whipped around in space. No, you're not hearing any of that. But every that's why the sound is so good here. But like even that scene again, it's all from inside the cockpit and you feel everything and there's it's all practical. It's all practical. That's why the movie holds up. This is why I don't understand that people haven't found it. Jesus. Oh my God. And it's amazing. And then, well, I do want to say in that first scene he's threatened with bouncing off the fucking atmosphere. And I remember figuring that out in the theater. I never heard of that. I don't believe I've ever seen that depicted in a movie. And I'm like, oh, this is a thing. And and the way he's so, like, cool about it. He's Armstrong's always cool. Like he never has his voice and he's just. And he's like, oh, you know, even when he gets into the spin with Abbott, we're in a pretty bad spin here. It's like, oh God. Oh, I mean, you put all the space scenes next to each other. I mean, they rival, like we had that space, that crazy space wave where there seemed like there was one a year. It was like gravity, interstellar, the Martian, even life, I would say first man. Like, they kept having a project. Hail Mary now, and this is probably the one that like, the people talk about the least. But I would almost argue it's the most practical. I mean, I don't want to say that because interstellar is practical, but like, gravity's using a lot of effects and stuff, you know, I get it, but I don't know, I just I love this. I mean, it's the only one based on a true story, you know, like, this is actually based on real shit. I mean, this to me, like, I honestly don't feel a giant difference between this and Apollo 13 in terms. I wonder if that is part of the problem. Did people think they had already seen this movie in Apollo 13? I mean, and then there was From Earth to the moon, which was kind of a slow, you know, follow up to Apollo 13, not unlike Band of Brothers Saving Private Ryan. But I wondered if Apollo 13 actually hurt this movie. I mean, it shouldn't have. Because again, you are talking. I mean, that was just one mission. How? Like this. This movie encompasses a number of missions because you're watching Neil Armstrong. It is a biopic, but we are getting an incredible, accurate documentation on how this idea of getting to the moon happened and how incredible it was that we actually fucking did it. Considering that's the Claire Foy has a scene where she is talking to Kyle Chandler because he turns off the radio, so she can't she doesn't know what's happened to her husband. She comes storming into NASA and she goes, you're just a bunch of boys playing with toys. And that's exactly what was happening. Exactly what it was. There was this idea that we had to beat Russia to space because we can't let Russia, you know, it's Oppenheimer, it's Oppen we can't let. I mean, the stakes are a little bit bigger for that one because you're talking about a bomb. But this was all about status. This was all about, hey, I can get the space. You can. Okay, we can get to the moon. But that's really what it was. And they had to figure out we had just really, within a hundred years of the 1960s, come up with cars. Yeah, I mean, fucking the first plane was like just a few decades earlier. It was like 30 years. I'm saying 38, not a fucking spacecraft, a plane, the Wright brothers. Yes. It's nuts. And we fucking found a way to land on the moon within 30 years of really developing air travel. That is crazy. And that was the thing that Damien Chazelle talks about, because he didn't know anything about this when this was not a movie that he wanted to do. Right. He was basically brought this idea of doing a Neil Armstrong thing, and then he read this book, and there was something that every single person had said that this is truly one of the greatest feats, not just of an America, but in the entire world. And how little is actually known about this whole entire thing that happened and how big of a part Neil Armstrong was, is it? This movie is just really, really amazing at showing you the actual detail of what really went down. And when you're talking about balancing the home life, I mean, I'm just throwing out ideas to as why maybe it didn't do better, but I, I think she's great. I think he's great with the kids. Like, I, I don't know, maybe it's a combination of that. It's Apollo 13 hangover. I don't know, I don't know, but I just want to point out a couple of scenes from the home life. It took my breath away when I first saw it, and it'll take my breath away every time I see it. In the very beginning, we're getting this idea that his daughter is sick, but we don't really know what it is. There's sort of this kind of like haze going on in the home, and then he's just playing with her hair and we're holding on to him playing with her hair as she's literally sucking her thumb. The next cut is a casket lowering, like, you're like, boom, boom, that's Tom cross right there, baby. Here we go. And and then one of my favorite moments like this is, you know, Gosling is very, very good at this at closing himself off. Oh you get you get you get you get to see a little bit of it in drive. But I think, I think he really nailed it with this. I think whatever sort of ideas that he had as a performer, kind of going into some of these more closed off performances, this is the one I think is a home run. Absolutely. When she tells him, as he's about to go this towards the end of the movie, it's my favorite scene of At Home. Yeah, that at home where she's like, you are about to, you're basically going to die there. There's a really high probability that you could die, because I've seen it happen to so many your fucking colleagues over the last ten years. Yes. And you need to go talk to your sons. Yes. And the way that he can't, can't. That's the beauty of it. You get. Exactly. This is what makes that scene so fucking great is because in Apollo 13. No, not not throwing shade. But it's a different style, different type of movie. They would have Hollywood. Everyone would have given his kids Aurora speech. That would have given me everything, would have been like, here are the stakes. I might not be coming back. He does that with his son like he does. Made a lot of they've made, you know, a lot of improvements since Apollo 11. Yeah. And it's like, no, I don't know about Gosling. Gosling fucking fails his Neil Armstrong in this scene, fails his children, fails his wife, and he can't even say it because when his older son is basically like. So it's like like not like not 100%. And he's like, there's a risk. And that's the most you get. That's the most you get. And you can also start to wonder for yourself. Maybe he can't even think about that because he has got to do this because he has. Too many people have died. Yes, it is a risk, but I can't even fucking think about that. And you also think in a sort of kind of selfish way to his wife. I can't think about this. You can't make me do this right now. I have to go, like, which is part of the problem. Get done. Yeah. Whenever someone is achieved. Greatness. I actually talk with this. My wife, Ellen. I talk about this all the time. Like, what do you have to do to achieve greatness? Tell us how you have to make extreme sacrifices. Listen to all the greats in the world. Shaq has spoken very eloquently about this. That he like was was not was an absentee husband and father. He missed everything with his kids because he was being Shaq. And yeah, I mean, if you're Neil Armstrong and you were tasked with landing on the moon, like, yeah, it could be hard to engage in a family. But hey, buddy, you also started that family, so you are here. You gotta I love how much credence Janet is given in the movie. I love her character. That's another thing. Like she could have been nominated. Like, where was that? Yeah. And the end, when the oldest son shakes his hand, that is. I don't know if that happened in real life that that might that might be. Makes sense. Yeah. Because that's what all the astronauts do. So that's how he sees them, you know, interacting. It's yeah. It's great. Also a father and son to not hug. There is just something to me that was so powerful about that because that's it can be a lot of things. It can be that. Exactly. I'm going to do what you do. It could also be a fuck you. Oh you know. Yeah. Like you're not going to give us this conversation. Best of luck. Yeah. Like there's there's so much there. But it also kind of goes to also. Well I'm like the oldest son kind of being like well I'm a man now so I'm the man of the house. I, we shake hands here like there's so much there. I just, I love that whole entire scene, the camaraderie that Neil Armstrong has with a lot of his friends, but then loses as it goes. Tracking. You know, I think that's got to be one thing that he must have thought about as a performer, because when you really kind of track like, you know, he's joking with Patrick Fugit, you know, and he's, he's very close with Jason Clark. Yeah. My, you know, my favorite scene is a fucking scene where all the three die in the first Apollo one mission with a cop. You think I wanted to be alone because I wanted someone to talk to? Well, not. No, not that one, but but the but the. When he gets the phone call, he's in the white House and he is told and he breaks the glass. You. That to me is the most powerful acting of his entire performance. Because you just see in his mind, like, I don't know what, but what read to me goes, three more dead, my friends, three more, and I'm in the fucking white House. Which is true. That's where that's how he found out. And then, like, what happens after the closed off that he gets after that? Like you get to that. That's why that like lunar landing scene and he comes back. He's got blood on his face. I'm going. What? I'm leaving. Like it. There's there's a camaraderie that's built in that he loses more and more throughout the whole entire that there's also one fucking scene where they're they're there now were in space. They're about to go into the lunar module to land. And the other guy, not buzz, the other guy that's in the cockpit, you know, he's just sort of like, yeah, yeah, he never got to get up. But he's like, so do you have this? Do you have that? Do you have this? And Gosling just goes, Mike. Yeah. And that was as much as he could give because it was also sweet. It was also sort of like I'm good. But it was also like, Mike. Mike, isn't that Lucas Haas? I tell you, it is. Lucas. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. And I'm like, oh my God, man, like I so yeah. When they were landing the lunar thing that the senior talking about that gives you goosebumps. Like as you're thinking about like how all of that is exactly how that went down there using some of the same fucking the audio recordings or like with the Apollo one mission where those guys die, like, you can go listen to that on YouTube there. It's the exact same dialog. So yeah, it all it's very accurate. So this is one thing that they didn't really do, but how could you really. So Buzz Aldrin was known in all of the NASA like tests that they put everyone through. Buzz Aldrin heart rate never went above a certain level. No matter how chaotic a situation was. They they they just were like, they they were like, this guy just does not feel stressed. Yeah. They look for that astronauts. So that's partially one of the reasons why he was there is like, this guy is going to be cool and commandeered all the pressure during in they had a pulse reading for Neil and Buzz as that was all happening in real time. That is the only time in Buzz Aldrin entire career were his heart rate went jacked way above any normal, because Neil's was too as cool as he was. His heart was going crazy, but everyone was commenting like, buzz is freaking out up there. And that's how intense that that landing was. Like over. Like having to find a new place to land, running out of fuel. Neil Armstrong being in manual. Yes. Seconds from a manual abort. Like you don't have a choice. Seconds from it. I did not know any of that until I saw this movie. Never knew that. All of that is exactly how that went. Exactly how that went. There was no Hollywood. Like, we're going to over dramatize this. We're like, nope. That was literally how it went. Love that, love that, that bracelet. A shit gets me a shit. Got me the first time I saw it. Still, I think whether it happened or not, it doesn't matter. But just that being the expression of like, I still like I just miss her so much and I'm going to leave a little piece of her up here I think is like really fucking beautiful. It just absolutely works for me. It always does. Oh, there there was something that I took away, by the way, that, that when that, that vacuum shot happens where they open up the hatch and then the camera shoots down this and you go to Imax, you go from super 16 to Imax and then boom, just vast silence. They say they they were asking astronauts, you know, like, you know, of course they're going to ask what was it like being on the moon? But Damian was asking for a certain kind of specifics. And the one thing that every astronaut says is they were like, I don't really know how to explain it, but everything gets sharper. Like your vision, like everything looks like whatever you think your best vision is when you're up there. Everything is crystallized to its absolute. So that was a big part of those Imax scenes where if you really look at that, you do see a level of sharpness that is actually really increased with that love that they that they kept all of that silent, you know, oh, so bad did it. And this was just my experience with the very last time I watched it. Because they're cutting back to Gosling, Neil Armstrong with his family. And I was like, man, there's nothing out there. I mean, maybe there's life, maybe there's all this. But for our purposes, we are all that. We fucking have the vastness. Yes, emptiness and loneliness of being up on that fucking moon and seeing that there's nothing here. Nothing, nothing here. We're here. And this is an incredible thing that we've just done. But we are all that we have. The only thing that matters to us is us. There's there's nothing out there. There's nothing out there. So yeah, that is the, the main like the ethos of the next year's big space movie at Astra, which I know I like a lot more than you, but that, that idea of where all we've got here. Yeah, it's all like the subtext and it's, you know, far less pronounced. But yeah, I agree, I agree with you. I and I just love the whole oh like the whole movie I love. But yeah, everything on the moon is really sensational. And they did that again practically. You can. It's a long special feature on the Blu ray about how they did it. You just it looks like they're on the damn moon. It's crazy. It's crazy. And that was. Yeah, they shot that like that was in the studio. They found a location and they made it that way. It's wild. Oh, God, I love it. Oscar nominations got a whopping four. I mean, I'm glad I got some production design, sound editing, sound mixing and visual effects. It won. Visual effects. 2018 was a bad Oscar year. Should have been nominated for and won a lot more. It just. I mean the two sound ones for instance. Oh, what a crime. The sound alone if everyone. If you've never seen First Man and you're going to take it from us, the one thing that I would tell you to pay attention to above all else that we've been Yavin about sound. The sound of this movie is the best sound fucking ever. It's so fucking great. Oh my God, the emotion. Everything you feel comes from the sound. I'm all fucking jacked up. I know, me too. The the the the spinning of the spin out. Like that horrific shrieking over and over and again. Like we know that this guy lives, but we see him in so many of these near-death experiences that you that the fact that they can maintain that tension is incredible. The amount of access that NASA gave this filmmaking team, they filmed there on all of the and they worked with all of that real equipment every actor got to talk to and meet some of these people who were really there in the control room on the day, and the way that every actor and filmmaker crew talk about that is what a privilege it was. So many of the actors would say that it was great being a part of the movie, but being at NASA and learning and trying to recreate what they did and the level of access that NASA gave them, they all talked about how meaningful that was. Ryan Gosling even said there might not be anything better he does as an actor in his career, other than the privilege that he got to be at NASA and serve this story. I mean, it's pretty amazing. And then the last thing, do we even get the opening of Top Gun Maverick without the opening of First Man? I mean, I just put my hands in the air. Yeah, there's like there's a lot of parallels. Even the shot of like, his helmet and. Yes, all all that. Yes. There's a lot absolutely. Kaczynski's watching all the space movies I just referenced, like over and over. And, you know, looking at that gun to is in about space. But that's the one time, you know, they like but. Oh yeah. But yeah, it that's what it reminded me of the first scene of reminded me of the first scene of First Man. I go, oh man, this is they're doing first man right here. You just you just set me up perfectly. Because Top Gun Maverick was released in 2022 and, you know, saved movies, they said from Covid. And a few months later, avatar two came out. It helped receive movies. These are huge, huge movies. It made a lot of money. So people were going to the cinemas in late 2022. They just didn't show up for Babylon because this movie costs $80 million and it made 15 million in the US, 48 worldwide. That equates to a massive bomb. And you and I ride for this movie really hard. We always will. Episode 82 is our review of the film directly after seeing in the theater. Episode 132 is our commentary on the film. We have talked about this movie a lot, Babylon, and my feelings haven't changed. I the only thing I mean, a new thing that I can say about it, is that I encouraged my dad to watch it. He hadn't seen it. It's all as of this recording. It's on Netflix, probably goes away soon, but I was first of all surprised it was on there. And then when I encouraged him to watch it, I'm like, get through the first five minutes and just hang in and it's like absurd. It's all this. And he loved it. He loved it so much that he actually came over to my house the next day, and we were going to dinner, and I had it on to like when I opened the door, I said, please don't. You know, I don't have this all like messing with you. It's because I need to rewatch it for the podcast. And it was the funniest. It was like, my dad is such, like a humble, nice guy. He's like, you know, he doesn't. He's not a big cursor at all. And we're sitting there watching the snake scene, and he's just like saying the lines back and like wheezing, laughing and saying, like all the crass dialog. And then his favorite scene in the movie is the haughty, toity party where she throws up all over the guy with Cary Grant daughter and all that. That's his favorite scene. And I, you know. So I loved it. He loved it. He loved the end, loved the big swing of it. And I just. And he told me I didn't remember this. I don't know, maybe we never talked about it. He's never been the biggest Brad Pitt guy. And it was Once upon a time in Hollywood this that like won him over. But that's because a lot of the people of my dad's generation are parents. Generation had the Brad Pitt thing. It's the same exact thing I have with Shalamar now, because when it came out, he had, you know, he he hit it big a little bit, and then he became this sort of pariah of like, no, fuck this guy and had to, like, crawl his way back. I don't think he ever displayed the arrogance that Shalom does. But anyway, my dad loved it. I loved that, and yes, Babylon. I mean, what else could we say about it? Just, I don't know, I really fucking like it. It holds up so well. It is a love letter to movies. It's just a love letter to cinema and it is big. And I understand if you've seen it and you hate it or you never want to sit through it, but I don't know. I think it moves very well. Three hours and nine minutes. But what a finale like it's going to send you off in a way that you have never seen in a movie before. Never in watching all of Damien Chazelle work, I'm telling you that whole revolutionary traditionalist line that said, in La La Land, there is something. When I heard that and then was watching Babylon and go, that's who this guy is. Yeah, because all of his work is all about this. But this was his revolutionary like stance. And I think this was also him in a big way, saying, I am this new filmmaker, I am this guy because I'm going to push things. I'm going to be unapologetic. I am going to take a lot of all this we talk about in the commentary. There's absolutely no way that that the, the, the asshole of Los Angeles is not a direct reference to reverse the rectum. It has to be. It just it just has to be. The music sends the same right when they go inside. Like, you know, it's getting a little electronic or something. The red it has to be. And the absolute balls for all the sexuality, the nudity, the I mean, it's like eyes wide shut but on crack and how fun it is. But you've got three characters that were watching this world happened to that. I've never really realized how fully realized they actually are as characters in a movie. You're watching a young immigrant who doesn't feel like he's ever going to reach any kind of level of success, but he's got these big dreams, and he does. He does reach these at almost the cost of his actual soul. You get a woman who comes from the tracks, reaches a giant level of of popularity, and then ends up right back where she started because there's no fixing this girl. Nope. She is damaged fucking goods from the go. But you're watching all these people in different eras of their life rise and fall, and you get a very lived in experience with none of them feel. You mean you're really watching the two younger ones? Because that's a normal progression? Oh, I am an assistant and I really hope to be a producer. You see it? I'm a nobody. I really want to be a star. I see it, Brad Pitt is the different one where it's like, I'm already here, but now I'm losing everything. When the movie starts, he is not aware that he's at his peak. He doesn't know that. Yeah, he that that opening party is Jack Conrad's peak of his life. Probably. And this is what's so beautiful is I never really thought about it until I watched it this time. That beautiful monologue he has in the beginning about redefining form. Yeah, yeah, that that passion in him, Jack Conrad, that is so real and honest. He just had no idea that the cost of that would be him. Yeah, exactly. Holy shit. Yeah, the cost of what? And he says it to. This is another great acting moment. Like characteristic of him is that you're watching him fall, but he never like he even says in that one interview, I don't want to stand in the way of progress. Progress? I believe he means that. I believe he means that. But he would have never thought that he would have been at the expense of it the way that he was. And then finally, you get that beautiful scene with him and Eleanor where she's I mean, that damn man, that might be like my the best scene of the movie. That thing is, that's the only reason. That is the reason I should say that Jean smart took the role and that is just an amazing, fair takedown. And she even says, like, at least you get to live on. Someone can watch your work like I'm done. When I'm done, I am done. So you had it and it it just this is why they laughed and now it's gone. And then him with his back to her. Thank you for that is fucking gives me chills is talking about it. It's beautiful heartbreaking and the it's heartbreaking but it's real. And then I love also that ends where it's his. You know when he sees Faye. Yeah. Faye. And he's so happy because it's a reminder of this moment. But you know, the way that he kind of says by to her, by the way, he's like, it's shit. It's going to be shit. I he says this one line where he talked about how lucky he was and he's like, I really enjoyed that. I really enjoyed what I got to experience. And and then, you know, when he tells the kid, like the the bell bellman, he's like, he's like, it's on you now, kid. It's on you. And it's it's such a cool Brad Pitt thing to do, but it's so sad and it's just like, so again, you're, you're you're watching these three very, very real people deal with this life that they're not in control of the the machine is moving. And it used them for what it needed to. And then when it doesn't need you, it doesn't need you anymore. That's true. It's still Hollywood still exists as it doesn't. As soon as Hollywood doesn't have a place for you. You're out by. It's a wild ride. It's so much fun. It's. But it's it's boogie nights. It's boogie nights. It's it there's there's there's so much like Goodfellas, like the whole cracked out scene where they're trying to. This is that love letter to filmmaking. This is why this will always be one of my favorite movies that you and I have ever seen together. Yeah. I don't know if there will ever be. First off, our reactions like the first, like 45 minutes. But we were ending. Yeah. I mean, we were like, we were dying laughing in the theater. And I mean, maybe there was like 15 or 20 of us in there, and everyone else, I think was in absolute fucking agony. Not because of us, just because of the movie. The two poor women sitting behind us for like, what the fuck are we watching? And you and I are just dying laughing like the whole time. Yeah, but in the end, yeah, it gets you, it gets you. I remember when he, I don't, you know, we go back on his face when they started cutting to previous clips from From Babylon. But then when they cut to that Edison shit of like the horse, the pictures of the horse going, which is like I let my jaw dropped and I went, oh my God. And I like, leaned forward. I said that and I, I had a hint of what he was going to do, and then he did it. But still, it's still it's just jaw dropping to watch. It's so cool that he did that. What a swing. Fucking go for it, man. And I know a lot of people that don't like that whole ending. Yeah that's fun. I don't like that. And it's I mean, just I mean and honestly, no, it's true, but it's but it is fair because that is the director telling. But what we like about it is the balls. It's, that's that's the thing. There are some we've talked about and there are so many swings. Of course, I can't think of one right now. The directors have done that are not for me. But I always appreciate the swing. Always like even. Yeah, I mean I do and this is this is kind of as big as you get. We, we've said this on our pods. The last movie he shows I mean, the last one he shows wisely is what persona. Yes, it is, but the second to last one when he's going chronological order is avatar. And he was playing that when avatar two was in the theater like that. It's just crazy. The whole thing is crazy. It's nuts. It's crazy. They gave him the rights to do it. All those directors, like, proudly gave him the rights because they understood the swing. And that to me, that statement of doing that is not like a big swing. Look, what I can do. It is that is the biggest, the only evidence I need that this is a love letter to movies. This is what this whole thing has been, that it started here. And look where we ended up in completely, you know, computer animation. That's that's where this ended up. It's nuts. Film cinema and and and Diego watching Diego watch all of that. It was truly like I think it got me more this time than ever before. Yeah. Because I love when. I love when he falls asleep and he kind of wakes up and, and he's seeing the old movies that he knows, like he's seeing the, the where they, where they talk about the sound and how the girl can't like she's got the voice and she's trying to work on it. He's like, I know this. And then you see this singing in the rain. Yeah, that's all singing in the rain, which is like what they had done. Yeah. Like earlier in different. Yes. So he's being reminded and he's like oh this is what. Yeah. This is what we were doing. I live crazy. And then and then it pans down to the audience and you see the different generations, and then it comes up and it does it all over again with it's like a crazy artistic swing. I loved it, yeah, I can't say enough good things. And I and I do think that the love that people are coming around to it now, I'm so glad to hear about it. But I think this is going to be like, you know, I don't think Damien Chazelle is going to take the hit of The Bomb of Babylon and let it define him. It doesn't sound that way. Yeah. The fact that this was a Paramount movie and Paramount is behind his next film. It hasn't. I've heard some titles being thrown around, but that is cool. I mean, they're giving him, I think, less than half the budget for Babylon, which is fine. That's what he wants. He's been in the press saying like, big swing with Babylon didn't do well. I kind of need to go back to, you know, other things. But I want to close the loop on Babylon because of course, it got nominated for 13 Oscars. Just kidding. Got nominated for three. Costume design, score and production design winning zero. Losing score. Despite I don't care that Horowitz had won two for La La Land a few years earlier, losing score here is dumb. It's just stupid. The score is one of the best scores like of modern cinema history. It's very, very dumb. And what did it lose to All Quiet on the Western Front? A fine film, a good score, but it's like four notes. It's like 4 or 5. Yeah, and it's not Babylon. No. And that is, that's the. I mean, they're lucky they got nominated for anything, frankly. So it's good that. But pitch should have been nominated. Margot Robbie Jean Margot Robbie should have been nominated. Yeah. Margaret. Yes. So it's my favorite performance of Margot Robbie his entire career. Me to like. Yeah, absolutely. Me too. I think she's fantastic in it. He often. It was supposed to be Emma Stone. What a sliding doors that is. Yeah. I mean, he offered it, but it was issues. You could see her doing it. I can see, like the mannerisms. It would have been fun because this would have been her first or one of her first, like really going crazy movies. Like, she goes kind of crazy and poor things, but to see her, like doing all the drugs and smoking and all that, we've never really seen that from her would have been, could have been cool. Well, and you can tell like that was the that was where she wanted to go with her career, where she's gone, like she's definitely started to choose to kind of go into these more daring, off the beaten path roles, which she is really good at. But yeah, that would have been that would've been an interesting one. Would it work? I think she would have done fine, I agree. Yeah, yeah. So yes his that's Babylon, those are the those are the five films. His next film. It's he's filming it now for Paramount again. Very nice saying it him back after Babylon. Much lower budget than Babylon. Here's what I know about it. It's set in the 1940s. It is apparently a prison set drama starring Killian Murphy, Daniel Craig, Michelle Williams and I am interested. Doesn't sound like there's going to be too many musical numbers in this. That would be pretty weird if there was. Sounds like it's going to be a hardcore, I don't know, prison movie killing James Bond. I mean, you got a hell of a cast. Hell of a hell of a cast. I'm excited for it. So probably filming now. Next year, I would think we'll get a 2027 release. I don't see how it could be perceived any worse than Babylon. So, you know, it's only only up from here. It's got to be. We got to get Leo to work for a Damien Chazelle movie. He loved the Babylon script and was, I remember when he and Pitt were were promoting Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Pitt was just starting to film Babylon, I believe. So, yeah, it could happen. That would that would be a lot of fun to see across over there, because, I mean, you want to push Leo, he'll be pushed. Give him a give him a nudge. Oh, yeah. Maybe we're gonna rank Chazelle here. It's the last time we did this was in the Babylon episode. We did not include Guy in Madeline and I. I'm pretty sure I remembered the way it ranked my four. And I'm going to tell you now they're different. Oh, they're different. I've rewarded for years later I've reordered. So five, four, three, two, one you want to do, we'll do five and then four. I know how we do it. What? Have we not done it like this? Don't take me for a fool. Don't get fooled by alcohol out there. Oh, wait, that was from fucking killers of the Flower Moon. Why did I pull that one out? Don't allow us to get clown by alcohol. All right, cool story number five, I. I mean, I think this has to be kind of, you know, I think we're probably a lot. Yeah, it's just it is what it is. Would you say what it is? It's fun. Number five, Madeline, guy and Madeline on a park bench. Yeah. And fine. You know. No. Yes. That's what it deserves. Now I'm going to start to make you mad. Here's what I'm going to say. Damien Chazelle, the four films he's made since Guy and Madeline, I they they are a movies to me a plus whatever. So when we are ranking them, we're dealing in variations of I don't know what that it's just like a Saturday and this is how I rank them now. But when I rewatch them, I went, yes, I feel fine about this. That's all I'm going to say. Number four from you. Oh for me, yes. Oh, number number four for me is La La Land. Okay, I figured my number four is First Man, which was surprised because I think La-La land was my four last time. But yes. No, not hating on any of them. All right. You're number three. No. Yeah. And as much as, like, I talked about, like, I really like, like I like lalalala is my favorite musical I've ever seen, right. So, so just saying, I like La La Land a lot, and I like it a lot. Yes. And and number three is first man I figured. Oh, this is where it's good. Yeah. It's where it's going to get fun. Why don't we do our two? And one's like, I'll do my two and one. You do your two and one. Because obviously number two ruins one. So yeah, you go Babylon whiplash. And I'm I'm just the opposite. It was a late decision on two whiplash, one Babylon. And I love both of those movies. It's just the it's it's just it's it's kind. Yeah. It's that but it's also it's like the big swing of it because everyone loves whiplash. And as I do, as you do, like, literally everyone does, like, so many people like it. But then Babylon is just it's kind of the swing. And we've we've really embraced it. It's become such like a w a coded movie because we really embraced it warmly. And we've gotten a lot of people to watch it, whether they liked it or not. You know, I think we're pretty clear about how the movie is. So, you know what? Like you're getting yourself into. But yeah, also whiplash, amazing movie. Like I'm not taking anything away from it at all. Whiplash is a very contained movie. Yeah. In terms of, you know, like just just the nature of it. It's a smaller movie, Babylon. Quite frankly, I've never seen anything quite like it. And and it is a, it is a, it is a fucking feat to have pulled it off and to pull it off with such, you know, grandiose style and attitude and. Yeah, that's why, like, I can't really commit to this order because I feel like I feel like it's Godfather and Godfather two. Yeah, I don't know, I don't know. One day you might catch me feeling godfather to the next day I'll feel godfather. But like today, I. I do think whiplash is my number one. Babylon is right fucking there. But then tomorrow I might switch. It might switch. It might be gone. Madeleine. Tomorrow. You never know. It won't be that Mogren went green. Die. I didn't ask any questions. That's what Godfather doesn't have is a shirtless Lee Strasberg. That's all I'm going to say. I like I love both. The first one is better, though. The first Godfather I is probably the best I if if I if I did. But then if I'm watching Godfather two, then I'll be like, fuck it, it's this one. It is, it's it's way more. There's way more going on in that second one with geopolitics, with just all sort. It's fucking crazy. The whole I mean, you can watch Michael and Hyman Roth scenes together over and over. What a masterclass in deception. Body language. Yes. But I think I agree with you. I think Godfather one. What are you watching? Is it Godfather? Yeah. No. I am recommending the amazing documentary Apollo 11. Oh, Very Good is a incredibly good documentary. Yes, I quite enjoyed that film. And that is if you. It's a great companion piece to go along with First Man. I think it would be best to see First Man, because you'll get that whole entire understanding of what this was, and you'll get the fun, you'll get the movie. But then when you go back and you see like, Holy shit, that movie really fucking got it right. Like everything that that happened up until this mission and the mission itself is exactly how First Man posited it. Yeah, it's kind of amazing to when you see these types of movies. That's why it's like Apollo 13, like, no, this is just literally like how it went down and you just get a great fucking crew with a lot of really great intention and cast behind it, and you get a fucking great movie fucking first, man. Everybody. But Apollo 11 is what I'm recommended, right? No, that's. I love that you recommended that mine. This wasn't mine, but part of my criterion 2026 challenge. At least one new to me criterion every week I had never seen For All Mankind, the 1989 documentary film about that uses NASA's Apollo footage like From the Source. So it was really cool. It's on criterion. It's 80 minutes. The best selling point. I didn't even know this. I'm such an idiot. One of my favorite albums of all time is Brian Eno's Apollo Atmospheres and soundtracks. I mean, Oh my God always returns on their ascent. I used ascent, my first ever movie, Full Circle, like it's just weightless. Oh my God, I love that album so much. So that was the soundtrack to the movie, so it was great. So it kind of you could do a whole First Man day there. Do all, do Apollo 11, do it all. Mine was looking up Damien Chazelle favorite movies. And you know, there's some that are in common that you see a lot in a recent criterion sale. Can't believe I've never owned this, but I purchased a film that is one of Chazelle's favorites, and it is called Make Way for tomorrow, released in 1937 by Leo McCarey. We've talked about this a few times on the pod. This is a movie about an elderly couple who are very in love and have lost their house, and they have five children, and because none of the children agree to take both of the elderly couple in, they may have to decide to split apart to, you know, just to survive. But they're also very old. So if they do split apart, will they ever see each other again? Spotify's 92 minutes long. It was made 9090 years ago, and I believe it was Orson Welles who said this movie would make a stone cry. And he is right. If you sit down and watch this. Very easy to find, make way for tomorrow, sit down and watch it. I guarantee it's going to get you. I just, I guarantee it. I love, love this movie. Remade as the more popular Tokyo Story in 1953 by yuzu. But I mean, it's just please go watch this. It doesn't matter that it's 90 years old. Have you ever heard of this? I've seen it. I fucking have it. Okay. Jesus. No. Like, what am I? This has been an ongoing bit between us because it was one of my first W recommendations years ago. And then you never mentioned it. And then I came to your apartment and you just had it on your shelf, and I went, when the fuck did you get this? And you went, well, you talked about it on the pod. You just told me, oh, it's so good. It's so, so good. Tokyo Story is the more well known art movie. Great film, but also 2.5 hours. This thing is 90 minutes long. Leo McCarey won Best Director that year for The Awful Truth. And when he accepted the Oscar, he said, thank you so much, I appreciate it, but you gave this to me for the wrong movie. That Make Way for tomorrow was his favorite movie that he made. He won two Best directing Oscars, so that says a lot. So yeah, and I love that Chazelle loves that movie, too. I adore this film. I watched it this morning that I meant to say that I watched it this morning before we recorded this. Oh, I, I brushed my teeth to it. I be a tough one. But you could you could hang on to your love, folks. Don't birth selfish, bitch ass children, I guess I don't know. Damn, that's how we're in a good movie. No, David, we love you. We're going to be here for the prison flick. I'm sure we'll review it on the pod. Maybe it'll be one of our favorite movies, whatever year it comes out. But, hey, I'm really glad we did this, like five feature films, one of which is not very widely seen. But I hope this motivates someone to, I don't know, go watch First Man or Babylon for the first time, or go rewatch them. These are great movies that deserved the attention that Whiplash and La La Land got. Exactly. Now this episode is done, but you can of course go to our Patreon. What are you watching? Bonus features and we are going to cover our Damien Chazelle Oscars. Sometimes we, you know, used to do this at the end of director episodes, but now it's going to be on Patreon. We've already done it for Jim Jarmusch, for the Jim Jarmusch Oscars on Patreon, we have a coffee and cigarettes commentary, a fun commentary on Patreon, and now this will be the next one the Damien Chazelle Oscar episode. So go to Patreon and search for us. Go to W a podcast to find us on Patreon and on social. Or to buy a nice shirt or a coffee mug, or a magnet or a phone holder. As always, thank you so much for listening and happy watching. Hey everyone, thanks again for listening. Go to our brand new website, a podcast for everything episode categories you can write to us. Donate. If you're feeling generous by our brand new merch and you can find our new Patreon link. That's right. What are you watching? Bonus features. We are on Patreon now, so for just a few bucks a month you can get so much more w a w content. Go to w a podcast for all of your what are you watching needs? Next time we're going to talk about Damien Chazelle whiplash. Going to dedicate an entire episode to it. Talk about how it was made. It's never waning popularity. And of course, Nick's crazy. Take that. It is his favorite movie ending of all time. I'm really excited to open that up and explore it. Go find us on Patreon! What are you watching? Bonus features. We released our first episode over there. We shared a lot of cool info about some personal artistic projects we're working on. We're having a lot of fun, and for our early subscribers, we are letting you pick any movie that we review. So if you join Patreon, you get more way content and you get to pick the next movie that we cover. Stay tuned for whiplash.